Toilet area - what am I doing wrong?

In an effort to save our lawn, I've been training Cain to go to the toilet on an old flower bed area area rather than on the grass. Started taking him out on the lead, click, reward and praise for when he did it. He knows the command "do a wee wee" and will do it when asked. We dropped the lead and just guided/pointed him to the area. He soon started to poo in the right place too despite me only training him on wees.

Now if I take him out and say "do a wee wee" off he'll go and after his treat I say "go do poo poo" and off he goes, good as gold. We've been doing this for about three weeks now, still always clicking and rewarding.

Now I want him to take himself to the spot as I don't want to have escort him out several times a day. The problem is that he'll do it on command but not by himself. I've tried going out with him but not saying anything and if he does it he still gets a click and reward.

Problem is that most of the time, without direction, he'll still try to go on the lawn. If I see him go to go on the lawn I'll interrupt him (like run away, he'll always follow) then redirect him to the spot. Once or twice I've been too late, I've ignored this and walked away, no treat.

What am I doing wrong? He picked up the first bit so fast, I thought he'd understand this by now. How can I get him to understand that he should always go in the toilet area, not just when he is instructed to??

Have you put a pee post there? If not, try it.

I wonder if you could give another command, e.g. "To the toilet" to get him to actually go there - like how to train a dog to go to its bed? So have him loose in the garden and clicking him just for walking towards the toilet area, then for setting foot in it, then putting a command with it.

You may find that by giving a command, instead of waiting for the natural behaviour, he has associated that he only goes there when asked or when you are there.

Always remember the behaviour in itself is a reward for him

Thanks all. We have a pee post from when Moon refused to pee in the garden at all. It's in the right place but Cain ignores it. Do they wear off over rime? It's about two years old now.

I do think he's associated with doing it on command only. I was hoping I could just phase the command out. First thing in the morning, when he's desperate, he'll run to the right spot and do it straght away and I reward him. It's later in the day when he feels like a pootle and a sniff that he wants to go elsewhere.

So I shouldn't have introduced a command first? I should have just waited? I only did it as he already knew the command and I thought it would help him understand what he was supposed to do. Hmmmm.....

IME - if you want a behaviour to happen without a cue, it is better not to use one, or phase it out very quick.

Ok, thanks, that makes sense. So what do I do now? Is there a way to correct it? Or does he need to go back on lead and start all over again without a cue? (he hates being on lead in the garden, it confuses him and he just sulks which is why I ditched it quickly!)

Will he go there (in the right place) off the lead if you are there?

EtA just thinking - if you put a post there it would be quite easy to do a sendaway to the post - that would get you out of the equation.

Thanks for the help, appreciated He will happily go to the area off lead if I'm there, he would definately prefer to be off lead. Sometimes he takes himself, sometimes he needs a pointed finger from me. It's when I stand near the door and don't actually go out with him that he doesn't understand.

I like the ideal of marking it with a post somehow as I'm planning to move at sometime and hopefully could take the post with us so it might help with tiolet areas in his new garden.

I think sometimes its as simply as , they will pee where they want to ,

Been there , done it, but gave up in the end. the dogs have their preference in the garden so decided not to bother.

P.S ..I had a pee post, it was called a rotary washing line (3 over the years) .