QW - please don't put words in my mouth I never said pet homes have no right to own border collies. It is true there are excellent working homes, and excellent pet homes. There are bad working homes, and bad pet homes.

I think you will find that more border collies are handed into rescue as *failed pets* rather than failed work dogs

If you want to push me on the subject, then I don't personally believe the border collie makes an ideal pet dog, no. However, I do appreciate there are some excellent homes out there that do go the extra mile to ensure their collie gets an outlet for its inherent working instincts.

Anyhow, this thread is now going way off topic, so I apologise to Elaine, as I have contributed to that.

There was a very long and protracted discussion here about working v pet collies for anyone interested ...

http://www.dogsey.com/showthread.php?t=68963

I know Elaine will, she is a very dedicated person and will do right by Poppy. Plus Poppy would never suffer because if (and I say IF) Elaine ever did have too many problems (which I am sure she won;t) Poppy would always have a home here, Elaine knows she can drop back on me anytime day or night.

I have owned this breed, both from working stock and pet stock, and know what pitfalls one can have with working stock, but never-the -kess years have taught me how to both mentally and physically stimulate my dogs. And i can honest say they do not suffer living in our terrace home as I am sure Elaine will not allow Poppy to suffer either.

Your one of the lucky ones hun, I only wish I had your idyllic life

Oh well said Steph, I couldn't have put it better myself. So, in essence anyone wishing to own a say Boxer, would ideally have to own, wild boar, deer and have wild bear roaming their land, because that was what they were bred for. Just because we dont own sheep does not make our BC's less happy.
Elaine x

Ahem. I did not say your home was not the idea place-I wrote less that perfect

The fact that you are only now starting to take your 6 month old puppy to training classes shows a level of naivety about Border Collies. They need a structured life from day one away from their litter. Leaving training classes until the dog is 6 months old is well too late,TBH, but better than never.

I did not say you couldn't give Poppy a good quality of life, but the fact that you are not coping well with her away from your home indicates that you do not have the level of training knowledge required to cope with the problems & sort them out.

If you were to have one of my three BC's you wouldn't be able to cope with their level of work drive. They are bred to work & not to train them would be a degree of cruelty & they would begin to teach themselves unacceptable behaviour.

I start training my puppies from the day I get them, regardless of them being 6 weeks or 14 months or whatever age they come to me. Jessie came to me with horrendous behavioural problems due to her being either crated or kennel since birth & the only attention she got was to be trained or groomed. She couldn't run in a straight line she had to circle, she perceived training as affection(done without reward)She in the past year has calmed down & can now run in a straight line, but she so craves attention that I doubt I will ever be able to work her in Obedience or do anything else with her, however we work together each day doing silly things & nothing serious. It's only the past 4 months that I have been able to walk her properly on a lead without her circling.

My other two are totally different as I had them both from being puppies & Wukee has no behavioural problems & at 14 months is just settling into learning Obedience Exercises, his breeding is identical to Jessie's(they are full siblings), but he has been exposed to everything & anything & now takes life in his stride

Rjj is an ISDS dog, who tends to take life quite seriously at times, but because I taught him to play retrieve the first day I had him, he does chill out & act the fool when we play ball. He is very precise with his obedience work & can get fixated so much on doing one thing that he blanks out what he should be doing. He has done a limited amout of stock work & will not back down from any ewe/ram/heifer etc he's never offered to grip anything(not in his breeding) but has an exceptionally strong eye-he isn't good obedience material because of this.

I advise everyone who enquiries about attending training classes to start asap, not to train, but to socialize & observe & so be able to nip in the bud any problems.

The very title of this thread announces that you are not coping. Nowhere have I written that you will not sort out your problems, but you do need help to get your puppy back on course to become a happy problem free pet

Firstly, you assume that since I have had Poppy she has had not training, no she has never been to puppy classes, and I have said why earlier on in this thread. this does not mean that she has had no training, on the contrary Poppy gets lot of training every single day. I take her out twice a day on her own and once with Ben, she has met and played with other dogs and puppies and been totally fine! She is being taught manners every single day.
Yes I am having problems with her, but as I said she is a rescue and I know that you have also had rescues too and so know that they come with issues and that these 'issues' do not always show themselves at first. My Border Collie was 16 weeks old when I got her in November and I have worked with her every day since then.
This nipping/lunging thing has only just begun to show itself and if it is anything that I have done wrong then I will be the first to hold my hands up and say so.
All I wanted was advice and tips.
But I seem to have started a very contentious issue here in regards to where a Border Collie lives rather than the issue that I started with this thread.

So, What is the perfect place for a Border Collie, yes acres and acres of land and a flock of sheep to herd everyday, I would love that, but unfortunalty I think, and I might be wrong, but the majority of BC's do not live in that idyllic life. Poppy was taken from that sort of enviroment in the first place because she and her siblings were being mistreated. How idlyllic was that. Sooner a terraced bungalow in the middle of a housing estate imo.
Elaine

Ahem. I did not say your home was not the idea place-I wrote less that perfect.......................Quote from JoedeeUK


It's comments like that hun, that put peoples back up....after all we only have your word that your home is NOT less than perfect.

As Elaineb only had Poppy from 4 months and had to get her vaccinated, and did start training her in the garden before she was allowed out, does not suggest to me that it is less than perfect home, and she may not be as efficiate as some of you's, but at least she acknowledged Poppy's problems. I think to suggest that any home is less than perfect is quite patronising

Thank you Steph

I have to agree with that, any breed with no socialisation before 14 weeks could turn out a HELL of a lot worse than Poppy is now, by this time as they have missed critical periods in their lives where they should have been out and about, had Poppy been brought up correctly by those who bred her and then on to Elaine at 7 or 8 weeks I am sure she would not be having the issues she is now facing.

Before anyone judges where this we girl would be better off in their opinion (as that is certainly how it's coming across), how about you get yourself a working stock, un-socialised bc pup at 14 weeks of age and see how easy it is first hand? Would be hard slog even for someone who wanted to work her, but then she would be probably thrown by the wayside as too much hard work, not the perfect, everything planned, well bred, health tested, hipscored, ped traceable, sooper dooper, sent from heaven type of pup that many here brag about is she?

Although I am sure she is sent from heaven just for you Elaine, just with a different purpose.

Oh well don't bother contacting Barbara then-after all what does she know about problem Border Collies, you have enough advice from the experts on here & I'm sure with your expert advisors the problems will be cured in a flash.

BTW a perfect Border Collie home, is one in which the dog is lived, well care for & has a purpose in it's life-it doesn't matter what purpose-just a purpose in life & rescue puppies need more socializing than those from a responsible breeder

Thanks Kel, I think I needed to hear that. Christ all I wanted was some advice and I get bombarded with negative responses.
Oh yes Poppy is my "sooper dooper, sent from Heaven pup" and as I have just said to Youngstevie, give me 12months and a video!!!
Thanks again for the support
Elaine xx