Sorry if I've missed the answer to this question already, but here goes....

Gnasher, have you ever tried the e-collar on yourself - at all levels - with someone else controlling it without you knowing when it's coming?

I completely agree with this!

Even with my daughter at school, when they are learning to read and write they repeat letter sounds over and over again. Same with number tables.

A question for you... if it was allowed, would you put an ecollar on your child to shock it into doing as it was told?
No probably not, as that would hurt poor little child, but its acceptable in your eyes to shock a dog, who has no idea what you are doing???!


(ETA.. I don't suggest putting an ecollar on a child btw, as I quite like most kids and hate ecollars!!)

Would the OP please be kind enough to answer a question which several people have posted several times, namely:

Did you try the e collar on yourself?

If not, why not?


Could you please answer this as it's clear many people would appreciate an answer?

I suspect many of us really feel that if you're going to use one of these devices on your dog, it's only right that you try it on yourself first.

Gnasher is it possible that while he isnt running off now you could reinforce this heavily through rewards instead of leaning towards the E-collar?

Build trust through continual reward even just for looking at you of his own accord (indoors and out) walking near you, approaching you, letting you touch his collar...condition him to a whistle (that you buy so sounds similar/same when OH walks him) keep him on a line only for a short while..) and go on that way?

The thing with trying an e-collar on yourself is that you have a good idea of what is coming, will be at least mentally prepared for it and if you are debating FOR them I suspect your view will be skewed.

That's not the same for the poor unsuspecting dog, who is doing his thing and suddenly finds something irritating/bothering/huring him that is completely outside his radar/knowledge.

Good point, maybe Gnashers OH should wear it , and when he least expects it, she can shock him

I guess there are a few things Gnasher, that come out in this thread. Unfortunately, the thing you accuse others of is exactly what you are doing, you are not listening either.
You are right, I know I am never going to agree with your method of recall, but my questions are,
-In your OP, you state he went to attack your OH and it was serious but he was not bitten, how or what is being done to address that?
-You have used your husband as the escape goat in this, to stand by and do nothing can make you just as guilty, I know if I attempted this my OH would have a lot to say and it wouldn't be pleasant.
-E-collars can suppress a dogs instinct and not actually fix it, it is hard wired in some dogs, and suppression can be seen as a fix, yet it is still there and dogs can get use to the pain and can eventually ignore it when you think you need to press the button the most.
-Dogs that have received abuse in their past, that have fear of pain, giving them a painful stimuli can re-enforce their understanding of needing to react to pain. Even e-collar instructions state, they should not be used for fear issues
-Do you truly think you are thinking 'dog' or 'human' thoughts, as from what I am reading it sounds like you are putting 'human' thoughts on a dog.
-Dogs can not be allowed to chase one thing but not another, they don't get that, especially if they don't recall any allowance of chase is further making the issue harder still.
-You state Ben not encouraged by reward with recall, if you don't believe the e-collar is causing pain, what do you think he is responding to?
-Another concern is that you are joyous in the response, what are you going to do if the e-collar fails in the future? You deem leads to be crueller than e-collars, another point we will never agree on, but what is so wrong with a dog on a lead or long line, they do get to fossick and run and play believe it or not. They are just restricted to the distance they can do this and this is what you are after, no?
-You stated 6mths you have attempted 'everything' has been done, can you please clarify 'everything', as if you have used 'everything' in six mths, that is not enough time for even one method to be effective.
-The yelp Ben gave why was that, if it was not pain?
-The last pro e-collar supporter even said it should not be used by someone without first getting experience from a handler that has used them, how does reading a manual or watching a DVD make your husband not a novice in using the device?
In other e-collar threads, I have asked why could an e-collar (if deemed not cruel) could not be used on children?
I am sure there is more I want to ask, but will leave it there, sorry if I have asked what others have already asked or I have written before, but an truly curious to the answers. I know I will not be swayed by the answers, just as you won't by mine, but am curious to see why you think an e-collar isn't cruel but a lead is and how you think Ben is 'cured'. You stated he suddenly stopped recalling, but has suddenly started recalling, do you or your husband not think there is the possibility that Ben may not recall again?

YES, without him reading this, completely unsuspecting, displaying some kind of unwanted behaviour and with some sort of training in Gnasher's mind.

I thought this too.