Thanks for that Gemma

& it wasnt that I have an issue with, it was the fact that people can tell a dog is 'unfit' from a photo, of the dog stood & that certain members opinions had changed, one min breed standards have wrecked a breed, meaning the dogs couldnt do their orginal purpose..Then them very member claiming this dog couldnt do what it was bred for as conformation was wrong...Baffled I were.

Plus only the judge saw the dog, only the judge had there hands on it ect.. Therefore I wouldnt like to comment (If I knew anything about the breed in the first place)!

A - I don't think people have an issue with the breed standards...it is how they are interpreted (from my observations)..

and B - we are looking at and Comparing static pictures.

From static pictures you can make observations - especially when you have a comparison....

Oh...Whats the point

Thats ok.
Siberians are really a breed you need to sit behind and watch work in harness, you understand things much better about movement and confirmation. Obviously any dog can work in harness and run. When you watch a team of well bred standard fitting Siberians run together it is something else!

Obviously our breed standard has alot of movement within it due to the use of the word 'medium'

Honestly there is no point, been here, done that..I shall await the next thread when standards are brought up, and these very members slate the standards and how dogs bred to meet them are never able to for fill a day as a work dog

I never mentioned its working ability

Crufts Shetland Sheepdog


Westminister Shetland Sheepdog



I prefer the American Dog, but other than grooming, there isn't much difference. They are really both lovely. The American dog is very masculine looking and the Crufts bitch, very feminine. Love them both!

Just shows what a static picture can do, the crufts winner looks like its got a ski jump nose....bet it hasn't though

Quote:
Originally Posted by aerolor
In the UK I think that if a dog is too barbered and trimmed it is penalised, particularly the gun-dogs.

Rip's replyNot so in the English Springer, until recently dogs with masses of coat did all the winning. Thankfully now the fashion has died away though and the coats are getting back to reasonable levels in respect to the dogs original job.

Aerolor's responseSo are you saying Rip that unless the show springer is heavily barbered and trimmed it will not win. Surely it would be preferable to breed for a show dog with a coat at a reasonable level, rather than to have to alter it to suit so that it can win

You go on to say below that a gundog should look functional and workmanlike regardless of if it is worked or not - this does not seem to be the case with show springers, both in UK and USA. I would be asking "why not" - and say they should not be winning if their coat is not right in the first place and has to be heavily barbered and worked on to get it to what it should be. I am a little confused.
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What worries me about excessive preening in show dogs, the US ones in particular, is the original breed risks getting lost and I do think this is why so many of the gundogs look so different (aside from the differences in the standard). A gundog, in my mind, should be functional and workmanlike. Regardless of whether the dog is worked or not, it should never be forgotten that these breeds only exist because they served a purpose created many moons ago. To forget this is to disrespect the breed imo.

Regards the coat care in the US, I think we have to remember MOST dogs int he US are shown by professional handlers, that get paid a lot of money to turn these dogs out to perfection, where as the UK counterparts are exhibited by owner/handlers, who dont have to answer to anyone for not doing it right.

I am not really a fan of the US show dog , much prefer the UK , less flashy /polished/preened.

I agree with you Jackbox, but are they doing it right - I don't think so - and even though the USA dogs maybe pristine and turned out immaculately, that is not my idea of perfection in a dog if normally the dog could not possibly look like that. As with a lot of US things, the dog show and a lot of dog keeping is taken to extremes, totally sanitised and artificial, ending up to become a travesty of what something is really meant to be.