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Tarimoor
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12-09-2012, 08:05 PM
Originally Posted by Ramble View Post
Definitely the most intelligent? I suppose that depends upon how you measure intelligence; what your markets are? If ou define intelligence by an IQ test determined and written by humans then clearly humans will do better than other species. That is arrogant in itself though isn't it! To measure intelligence of other species on our terms... The more like us they are the more intelligent?

I would never claim to be more intelligent than another species. I am just different.
Then ask a fox an algebra question, and see if it gets it right.

Sorry, but that is an incredibly naieve answer, other animals do not have the same level of intelligence overall, to be able to attibute qualities to existence that we do. We have the ability to create theories, understand empathy, and design things that make our lives how we want them.

Yes, some animals have some of the same ability, but if they had it to the same extent, why are we top of the food chain?
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Helena54
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12-09-2012, 08:17 PM
Originally Posted by Tarimoor View Post
So it's ok to kill a fly or wasp that's causing you a personal inconvenience at one moment in time, but it's not ok to implement a culling programme to ensure a population of animals remains at the right level for the area they live in, so that they are healthy? Skewed logic to me I'm afraid. If that were the last fly of a particular species, or the last wasp, would that make a difference, or are you just anti fly/wasp? The unfortunate fact is, red foxes are just not rare, perhaps a victim of their own success in recent years. What makes them different from other less fluffy but more endangered species?
Flies carry diseases, when they sit on a pile of poo somewhere and then come into my house and land on my sandwich sitting on the kitchen worktop, foxes and other animals who carry diseases don't do that, I can avoid them, I cannot avoid the flies.

Wasps sting, they have no purpose in life, they're not pretty, they're just annoying, and again, they come into my house and have to be dealt with, foxes don't, nor does anything else, even a rat wouldn't get in if I take the right precautions.

Culling is not for the sake of keeping animals healthy imo. It is once again for OUR own benefits, be that of the dairy farmer in the case of badgers, or the pheasant breeders who want to raise their young so that they can blow their brains out at a later date - fact!
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Tarimoor
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12-09-2012, 08:21 PM
Originally Posted by Helena54 View Post
Flies carry diseases, when they sit on a pile of poo somewhere and then come into my house and land on my sandwich sitting on the kitchen worktop, foxes and other animals who carry diseases don't do that, I can avoid them, I cannot avoid the flies.

Wasps sting, they have no purpose in life, they're not pretty, they're just annoying, and again, they come into my house and have to be dealt with, foxes don't, nor does anything else, even a rat wouldn't get in if I take the right precautions.

Culling is not for the sake of keeping animals healthy imo. It is once again for OUR own benefits, be that of the dairy farmer in the case of badgers, or the pheasant breeders who want to raise their young so that they can blow their brains out at a later date - fact!
Foxes carry disease.

Wasps actually predate on flies, so by killing wasps, you are actually killing a predator you would otherwise rely on to kill a pest species you don't like, because it spreads disease. Given that foxes carry disease, in the same way that flies, and many other species do, does it not seem a tad hypocrtical to you, that it's ok to kill flies and wasps, but to kill foxes is deemed as unaccedptable.

I've not mentioned badgers or pheasants, so I'm not sure where your argument is coming from there?
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spot
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12-09-2012, 08:59 PM
Originally Posted by Tarimoor View Post
So the hunting ban has not had any effect really, glad we both agree on that.
No point bringing hunting back then - glad we agree on that then.
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Tarimoor
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12-09-2012, 09:01 PM
Originally Posted by spot View Post
No point bringing hunting back then - glad we agree on that then.
Your words, not mine.
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12-09-2012, 09:06 PM
Originally Posted by Helena54 View Post
Culling is not for the sake of keeping animals healthy imo. It is once again for OUR own benefits, be that of the dairy farmer in the case of badgers, or the pheasant breeders who want to raise their young so that they can blow their brains out at a later date - fact!
As I said in my previous post
Foxes are not welcome in towns, open spaces, farms, where birds are being bred to be shot, are nesting etc etc.
Or as someone put - have no place at all. I think from some replies on here that it's not just one persons opinion that they have no place on the planet.

How does one go about a cull that only allows foxes where 'we' think they should be allowed, if basically they shouldnt be allowed anywhere?
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Tarimoor
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12-09-2012, 09:08 PM
Originally Posted by spot View Post
As I said in my previous post
Foxes are not welcome in towns, open spaces, farms, where birds are being bred to be shot, are nesting etc etc.
Or as someone put - have no place at all. I think from some replies on here that it's not just one persons opinion that they have no place on the planet.

How does one go about a cull that only allows foxes where 'we' think they should be allowed, if basically they shouldnt be allowed anywhere?
That's simply not true, I know gamekeepers who tolerate foxes on their land, as long as they don't start to predate on what is, an income.

Foxes have a place, that's not in question, what is in question is at what level that place is, in comparison to other species around them, and at what level the fluffy brigade interfere.
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spot
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12-09-2012, 09:09 PM
Originally Posted by Tarimoor View Post
Your words, not mine.
Sorry I thought you had agreed that it hadnt made any difference? No?

So if it's not made any difference what would the point be of bringing it back? Bearing in mind that the hunts very rarely got much success and only then took the old and ill - leaving a wonderful young healthy population to make more wonderful healthy young babies to overtake the planet
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Tarimoor
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12-09-2012, 09:12 PM
Originally Posted by spot View Post
Sorry I thought you had agreed that it hadnt made any difference? No?

So if it's not made any difference what would the point be of bringing it back? Bearing in mind that the hunts very rarely got much success and only then took the old and ill - leaving a wonderful young healthy population to make more wonderful healthy young babies to overtake the planet
If it's not made any difference, what's the point in the current ban, surely hunting with hounds makes no difference?
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spot
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12-09-2012, 09:18 PM
Originally Posted by Tarimoor View Post
That's simply not true, I know gamekeepers who tolerate foxes on their land, as long as they don't start to predate on what is, an income.

Foxes have a place, that's not in question, what is in question is at what level that place is, in comparison to other species around them, and at what level the fluffy brigade interfere.
How do they teach the foxes to know the difference between what 'we' want to have fun shooting and make money from?

As I have asked where is that place, we've seen responses on here that game keepers hire blokes on quads to kill all the foxes around the estate and surrounding areas, anywhere near farms anywhere near towns.

How do you cull so that foxes only stay in the areas we say they are allowed?
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