this is a reply i got from a so called behaviourist on another site about the barf diet.
what are ur views on this?

I think that the only thing I can say is if you think the meats we have are so safe then you eat it raw! When or even if you actually make it out of hospital then tell us about the experiences.

I sorry Jenny if I seem to be having a go, but there is not a shred of scientific evidence that has been studied or researched that says that the BARF diet is healthy or even safe. Why is it that dogs are living far longer nowadays than they did when fed on so called BARF.

There are a variety of raw meat menus being offered. You can also find several home-made raw meat diets on websites. It's possible that some of these menus or products are better/safer than others. However, I have been told by experienced veterinarians and nutritionists that they all have in common - they are extremely unbalanced and also put your dog at risk of contracting dangerous bacteria and parasites. This is not my own opinion, but that of the top veterinary universities and true nutritional experts. Anyone who denies there is risk, is deluding themselves!

What Are the Known Benefits of a Raw Meat Diet?

There are NO studies showing any benefit that raw meat is directly responsible for good health or long levity in fact quite the opposite. Dr. Billinghurst has been asked several times, publicly, to provide documentation or studies on his "theory" or proof he has any knowledge of wolves and wild dogs on which he based his theory, yet he has constantly failed to produce such evidence.

As well, holistic practitioners that recommend raw meat have been unable to provide any type of evidence. Especially one so great that you should risk the health of your dog.

On the other hand, as more people experiment with raw meat diets, veterinarians are seeing frequent cases of pancreatitis, ulcers, malnutrition, injuries due to the raw bones, systemic bacterial poisoning and other conditions. I have seen testimonials from people who once swore by barf, and have now left the discussion groups with very sick dogs. One who's dog died was called a traitor because she stated her dog had died from choking on a raw chicken wing.

I am truly amazed by the people who still bang on about BARF whilst ignoring all the scientific knowledge and warnings to contrary. By all means feed BARF but remember you were told of the dangers.

I wrote this article some time ago and was severely castigated for it in fact in Dogs monthly this month another BARF aficionados had complained about my letter.


The Raw Meat Diet?

There are more fads and ideas when it comes to our pets than you can shake a stick at. A new idea, or method comes along almost everyday. One minute we are working on the pack theory and basing all out ideas and behavioural modifications on the Wolf, “dogs distant ancestors” and how they interacts with the rest of the pack Then Copinger comes along and tells us that its not as simple as that “who ever said it was simple”?

After studying feral and village dogs he turned the Alpha theory on its head. Stating it is more like a democracy than an autocracy. We have clicker training, natural diets, harnesses, halti’s, training discs, positive reinforcement negative reinforcement, operant conditioning, and collars that squirt noxious liquids. All supposedly to let us live in harmony with our pets.

Most are excellent, several are overused, some are batty and a few are downright dangerous, rarely are they fatal with the exception of the BARF or Raw Meat Diet.

As a professional behaviourist and dog trainer I see lots of puppies and adult dogs, I also get to see the Breeder’s feeding recommendations, and these follow fads like there is no tomorrow. The BARF diet - Bones and Raw Food - involves feeding your dog the same types of food he would apparently find in the wild. This feeding method recommends raw, meaty bones and raw human grade meats as a daily source of nutrients.

However this recommendation to feed raw meat, including chicken wings, beef, lamb pork and tripe is positively life threatening, the additives, antibiotics, preservatives, and toxicity in raw meats are nothing like you would ever find in the wild. We all know about Salmonella in chicken but who has heard of Neosporosis Caninum? Or Anthelmintics?


With regard to raw Tripe. Cattle are now routinely wormed with fairly potent concentration of Anthelmintics, usually Fenbendazol. This is administered via a Bolus which sits in the stomach and breaks down over selected periods of time into regulated doses.

I wonder what concentrations of the Anthelmintics in "tripe" is if the animal is slaughtered shortly after a release of a dose from the bolus? I certainly feel that the strength and concentration may be far too much for small dogs or young puppies to cope with.

Raw Chicken is another area of concern. The amount of antibiotics pumped into them, could surely have a culminative affect when fed to dogs over a period of time. Possibly creating a situation whereby our pets become immune to antibiotics, resulting in enormous problems in post operative or even preoperative treatments. The conditions these chickens are kept in leave them open to all sorts of diseases and viruses including bird flu which we already know can jump species.

I have recently seen a huge rise in the recommendation to feed both puppies and adult dogs on human grade lean raw mince. The thinking is that if it is good enough for human consumption then it is good enough for dogs. Neosporosis Caninum, a parasite that affects the brain and then works its way through the spinal cord, muscles and major organs, is a fairly recent discovery, up until 1988 it was misdiagnosed as Toxoplasma gondii.

It is almost always fatal and if your pet does survive it will normally leave it blind, brain damaged, and paralysed. A recent case resulted from feeding some fresh raw mince bought from a leading UK Supermarket. The owner an experienced dog breeder watched Cilla a 16 months old pedigree Boxer deteriorate from a happy and healthy family pet to a disoriented, blind and paralysed wreck in just one week.

The “Dogs Trust” veterinary director said: "It’s a pretty horrible parasite. The simple way to avoid it is to cook the meat – never feed it to your animals raw. Most people do not realise that it is extremely dangerous, you must always cook the meat you or your animals eat."

The Boxers owner is now determined to get the law on food labelling changed – and is pursuing it through her MP. She says: "I really think it is something that needs to be addressed. It needs something obvious to warn people not to feed raw meat to their pets, to prevent more tragedies like this.” In reply a supermarket spokeswoman said: "Our meat is only meant for human consumption and should always be cooked. We label our products very clearly for humans. We have done a lot of research into what it says on the label and we are happy that they say everything that is needed." Tell that to Cilla!

Apart from the life threatening elements of feeding raw meat there is also the behavioural element,
My recommendation! Stick to a quality dry food not the latest fad and you can’t go far wrong.

I feel that the BARF diet is just a fad diet - I have already read about Dr Billinghurst refusing further evidence on his claims - I support the Burns food - no testing on animals - I also give my dogs cooked meat.

I have to agree - the behaviorist I got for Bruno 's aggression basically said that it was the food that he was getting that made him aggressive - Much to my serious doubts - he didnt even take the time to really get to know Bruno - so wasnt overly impressed, with this advice. however I did try it - and he hated it - wouldnt eat raw chicken - doesnt like bones and ended up going for 3 days without food as was trying to convince him to eat it - wasnt having any of it - we feed him now on a mixture of naturdiet - although about to try Burns. However Bruno actually gets a lot of our leftovers - we east pretty healthily and I dont see any problem in giving bruno our scraps as thats how they did it many years ago - and still do in Italy (where my family are from).

bruno likes human food - but other than scraps he only gets the odd biscuit- but will basically eat mostly anything he sees me eating - but HATES raw food.

The more natural stuff tjhat you give ur dog the better - but that rule applies to us too - I dont eat heavily processed foods so dotn expect my dog too either....

dani

Teagan has become agressive around some raw food (only bones).
She is now on Burns, with somr raw mince & veggies. I didn't want to stop the raw completely.

Excuse me, but its not all of us, who have easy or cheap access to raw bones and other things...

And some say feed veggies, others say dont feed veggies, and others again, say veggies need to be blended and others give them raw in dices...

So I'm confused and dont really dare.....

I live in Denmark, and our butchers are not exactly cheap....

i found your post jenny fasinating and have to agree with you fully.

the long post was a written reply from someone else. I feed my dog raw food

i feed my dogs raw i was put on to it by my vet, there is a web site raw meaty boanes that gives some good advice.

i worry it is just a fad. i havent given max anything raw he likes his chicken grilled lol. i feed max on nature diet as wouldnt be happy feeding him any old cheap tined diet but wont go raw. i dont have the time or the fridge space and dont see enough evidence for myself of what benefit it would be to him. a dog round here died choking on a bone in a chicken wing

I do not wish to embarrass Jenny, but I was directed to this site by one of my Forum members and this post was pointed out. I promise you Jenny it does not bother me that I have been accused of being a "So called behaviourist" I have been called much worse . However when she posted my views on the BARF diet I am not sure that she was expecting the type of response she actually got.

My comments on the BARF debate are well researched unlike Ian Billinghurst’s book "Give a Dog a Bone. However I must point out that I am not here to knock people who want to feed this diet only to point out the inherent dangers.

I see under the articles section on this site that a Holistic Vet has written an article praising BARF, Perhaps someone can tell me what research he has done to confirm his opinions.

Vets know very little about the mind and behaviour of a dog evidenced by the fact that in the last month I have had to treat 4 dogs owned by Vets for behavioural problems. My own Vet comes to me if he wants a dog, I chose the breeder and the dog for his last edition to his pack. A black labrador whom he has named bonkers "Sad" he has told me it is the best Lab he has ever had, so I suppose I get something right occassionally

Quite often I find that Vets know very little about the dietary requirements of dogs how can they? They have to know about every animal, I only have to concentrate on dogs.

Lets have a quick look at the different aspects of the BARF Diet.

From the nutritional aspect. Any substance considered food can be used by an animal as a source of energy. Muscle meat alone does not fill those needs. A dog’s diet must be composed of other food groups to provide all the elements necessary to sustain good health, for instance: dairy, fish, vegetables and legumes.

From the physiological aspect. Be aware of the dangers. Raw meat can contain parasites, bacteria, salmonella and e-coli. This is especially hazardous to puppies and elderly dogs whose immune system is not yet fully formed or has been depleted through age. The bone fragments found in raw feed can also be potentially lethal. Particles of bone can puncture the internal organs or become lodged in the throat and choke. To eradicate the dangers of contamination from raw meat, simply cook the food first before serving to your dog.

From the psychological aspect. By continually feeding your dog a raw meat diet, you are instinctively activating its natural prey drive or excitement hormones. Raw meat increases the levels of testosterone, adrenalin and cortisol thereby adding to the motivation to chase or hunt other creatures and become more aggressive. A very risky situation if you live in a neighbourhood with other family pets and small children.

If you want to do the “right thing” by your dog’s diet, commercial food definitely provides all necessary daily requirements. Be selective, read the contents of the packaging. Look for human grade ingredients and descriptions such as ‘whole ground brown rice’ instead of just ‘rice,’ and for ‘beef’ instead of ‘beef by products’. Keep in mind that premium pet food suppliers have completed extensive research and have formulated and nutritionally balanced their products to meet the highest standards. If you are still not convinced that high quality commercial pet food is the way to go, consider home-prepared meals of cooked meat, cooked offal, cooked vegetables, brown rice and oats. Just leave out the spices and seasonings like salt. Add some canned tuna or salmon for variety and flavour.

May I also recommend reading the post in full that Jenny pasted on the previous page, which are my comments to Jenny from my own forum

Stan