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Location: UK
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Posts: 9,065
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10-01-2011, 10:09 PM
Originally Posted by Adam Palmer 
Actually I'm very interested in the dogs welfare, the owners ideally would be irrelevant but seeing as they can decied not only the dogs quality of life but also its life span I think you'v gotta please them too!
However my main priority is the dogs quality of life.
Adam
I'm sorry Adam, you do yourself no credit by training dogs with these methods.
They allow you a quick fix by teaching through fear.
I see several people a week, many of whom have been to more 'traditional' trainers, and my question is always the same, Do you want a relationship with your dog based on trust or one based on fear?
You do the latter and IMO, its not nice.
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Location: london.uk
Joined: May 2009
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10-01-2011, 10:10 PM
Originally Posted by Adam Palmer
Lol, I glanced through it and the diff is obviouse.
Btw why would I bother getting someone to write something for me/join dogsey.
No offence but I wouldn't want to subject clients/friends to you guys.
Adam
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Location: UK
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10-01-2011, 10:11 PM
Originally Posted by k9paw
Sorry, but can't resist(and... am still staying
in debate, discusion whatever), any dog, human, whatever species can be stimulated in many ways. If something is for the good, whatever or how ever it is instilled/enforced then so be it. But naturally such devices are not known of of used, when does a dog, wolf, bear, sheep, cow, rat use any collar or otherwise? No offence to anyone(n am ignorant in lot of ways).
What we require from our dogs is unnatural.
Dogs do use physical aversives directed at the neck to correct each other, I'm not saying its the same thing but they do seem to have a natural response to it.
Adam
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Location: Dogsey and Worcestershire
Joined: May 2004
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10-01-2011, 10:12 PM
Originally Posted by Minihaha
Adam
I have asked you these question before but think you may have missed them ....can you think of any reason why someone would use 2 e collars on a dog at the same time and have you ever done this, if so why?
and a couple more questions based on your replies in another thread..
..does it matter where abouts on a dog you put the e collar, are some areas of the body more sensitive than others eliciting a bigger response to the shock,
..is it acceptable for a trainer to put an e collar on a dog near to its genitals and what could any trainer doing this be attempting to teach the dog .
Originally Posted by Adam Palmer
Point of contact training is used (more by some trainers than others) to make things clearer. The idea is that the dog will move away from the pressure of the stim (like horses) so you put the collar on top the neck to make down obviouse ect.
Collar on each side of the neck might be used for left and right \(gundog sheep dog ect).
Also often used on high drive and high sensitive dogs doing protection work (malis) as the stim is spread out over a larger area, making it even softer.
Adam
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Location: UK
Joined: Sep 2008
Posts: 9,065
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10-01-2011, 10:14 PM
Lol, I glanced through it and the diff is obviouse.
Btw why would I bother getting someone to write something for me/join dogsey.
No offence but I wouldn't want to subject clients/friends to you guys.
Adam
Originally Posted by Tupacs2legs
but u will dogs to pain....u getting a tad annoyed adam? short fuse perhaps?
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Location: UK
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10-01-2011, 10:14 PM
Originally Posted by Tassle
..... I find that very hard to believe with the methods you profess to use.
I'm sorry Adam, you do yourself no credit by training dogs with these methods.
They allow you a quick fix by teaching through fear.
I see several people a week, many of whom have been to more 'traditional' trainers, and my question is always the same, Do you want a relationship with your dog based on trust or one based on fear?
You do the latter and IMO, its not nice.
So the dog learns that being near the owner is comfortable, my definition of a dog feeling like it trusts someone (from working with fearful dogs) is that the dog feels ok about being near the person.
So straight off I generate trust.
Ever seen someone round pen/join up a horse?
Simialr princple.
Adam
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Location: Cardiff, UK
Joined: Aug 2007
Posts: 6,033
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10-01-2011, 10:15 PM
Originally Posted by Adam Palmer
She said their opinion didn't matter because they can't train. I said it did because they are the people who need trainers.
Adam
o their opinions on wether your vids are good or not are unliklely to be any relection of what they are seeing.
I get TONS of static shocks & they are very unpleasent indeed.& will go to great lengths to avoid geting them.
I also once had one of those machines that made my muscles twitch, in hope of getting toned, i couldnt keep using it, it didnt "hurt" but was highly un pleasent
The thought of a dog , KNOWING a shock is going to come, such as this is abusive & if you do it then you are a abuser in the name of making yourself money .sick. & you seem to enjoy it. double sick.
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Location: UK
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10-01-2011, 10:18 PM
Originally Posted by Adam Palmer
Actually the first (sometimes only) behaviour I teach via the collar is move towards/follow me.
So the dog learns that being near the owner is comfortable, my definition of a dog feeling like it trusts someone (from working with fearful dogs) is that the dog feels ok about being near the person.
So straight off I generate trust.
Ever seen someone round pen/join up a horse?
Simialr princple.
Adam
By making the area around the owner comfortable, by definition you are making the area away from the owner uncomfortable.
Can you honestly not see the problem with that?
How worrying.
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Location: UK
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10-01-2011, 10:19 PM
Originally Posted by mishflynn
They are unlikely to be able to read dog signals aswell as dog lovers on here are
o their opinions on wether your vids are good or not are unliklely to be any relection of what they are seeing.
I get TONS of static shocks & they are very unpleasent indeed.& will go to great lengths to avoid geting them.
I also once had one of those machines that made my muscles twitch, in hope of getting toned, i couldnt keep using it, it didnt "hurt" but was highly un pleasent
The thought of a dog , KNOWING a shock is going to come, such as this is abusive & if you do it then you are a abuser in the name of making yourself money .sick. & you seem to enjoy it. double sick.
The static shocks you get are not from an e collar, and are clearly too high.
Adam
Btw your all special.
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Location: UK
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10-01-2011, 10:21 PM
Originally Posted by Tassle
No - you are not teaching the dog to trust you....you are teaching it that the area away from the owner is dangerous.
By making the area around the owner comfortable, by definition you are making the area away from the owner uncomfortable.
Can you honestly not see the problem with that?
How worrying.
Can I have an actual approach instead of pretty (but pointless) chat about time and letting the dog come round and the right attitude/atmosphere ect.
Btw I personnaly consider leaving a dog in a none trusting fearful state for weeks/months pretty hard.
Adam