I think that the biggest focus of clicker training is the timing. That's not to say it's the owner that's being trained (although having taught some people clicker timing, I would say that's often partly the case), but that it's a focused marker on the exact behaviour you want. You can't always get that exact marker with voice and treats alone, so to me it cuts down the time it takes. I don't believe it's always possible to time praise and treats correctly - all too often by the time half the "gooood" is out of your mouth, the behaviour you're praising is something completely different (a sit with an **** in the air for example). The clicker is invaluable to me personally in ensuring Dharma (and Seth) know exactly what they're getting rewarded for - it also helps me to shape the best sits, the best downs, etc.

What I do like about CM is that he gives off an air of confidence that seems to rub off on the owners. Shoulders back, step out smartly, get off your backside, 'own the space' (can't think of an English phrase for it). When he goes into a situation the owners are often run ragged trying to cope with the dog or they have just given up.

I like the way he gives the initiative back to the owners to start making the decisions. Too many owners have handed the decision making over to the dogs (where to walk, when to protect the house, who to allow to sit where etc) and the dogs are just not designed to cope. IMO an owner who has the confidence to make a decision (even one that it frowned upon by other people) is serving the dog's needs better than an owner who delegates the decision making to the dog.

Thought i'd give my views on CM as ive been drawn to comment on him in other threads.
First thing I would say is that the pro CMer's arent as dismissive as the ones who are against him. Those that dont like his methods like to put across the impression that those that do like 'some' of his methods aren't dog people or have a lower level of understanding - well I disagree.

Think there are a number of things I consider :-

1) Its television, television is a business so they will focus on the more entertaining end of the spectrum and that will involve a dog rehabilitation centre that deals with more often or not cases that involve aggression, be it fear, dominance etc etc. The big mainstream US channels arent going to make a show about a guy who solves toilet training as a living. Caesar has the quirks of the 'power of the pack' and is hands on with big powerful breeds.
2 ) CM has created his reputation through word of mouth and this eventually led to him becoming involved with a number of celebrities including Will Smith, Oprah etc, this also makes for good television and unfortunately means that Caesar by default will come across as a celebrity.
3) The fact that he is an immigrant or has an annoying accent has no bearing on this thread yet has been brought up by a few individuals - no need - save those comments for the 'Should Dogs be allowed in the BNP' thread when it appears - I dont care if Caesar Millan has two heads and speaks alien as long as he believes in the knowledge he is trying to share.
4) The programme issues warnings every time CM demonstrates his methods that should the viewer wish to emulate these techniques they should consult a professional first - this is very important because it transforms the show into a showcase for his abilities/techniques -THATS ALL - by the way I liked watching Steve Irwin's Crocodile Hunter it shows his methods.
5) Any advice given by anyone is objectional, from raising kids to driving, anyone who blindly follows everything put in front of their eyes should have question marks over the level of responsibility they are allowed to have.
6) I dont agree with everything Caesar does, the Alpha Role is OK if you are confident what you are doing, think it is the right thing to do and are aware of the consequences, personally I dont want my wife trying it with my GSD pup - shes 23 kilos at 4 mths old - if my were wife to struggle now shes gonna be in trouble 2, 3 , 4 mths down the line. Dont necessarily agree with the treadmill either, the idea of more exercise YES, treadmill NO just seems too unnatural to me - because the exercise should provide an element of bonding - the shhhhh technique - FANTASTIC I think it breeds the confidence in an individual that they dont have to be hands with the right body language and approach to grab the dogs attention and command space - the positive reaction increases the confidence and it becomes self fulfilling - but dont think Im ignorant of dog pyschology or im not a 'dog person' because I happen to like it.
7) There are those that agree with his clear distinction between man and beast and how the both work differently and that most of the dogs problems are created by peoples reluctance to differentiate between the two.
Also there are some people that think a measured hands on approach doesnt hurt - i was smacked as a child but i dont go out attacking people never have, and i dont hit my dogs persay, but cant say i wouldnt for definate and if my staff can run into a gate at 30mph chasing a ball ( a tennis ball - i know im crazy ) and not even act like he hit anything a 'stiff' finger to get his attention aint gonna have him running for the medical box or shrinks couch.
9) Caesar doesnt profess to be a dog trainer - he differentiates himself from them and looks at himself as a behaviourist and I personally think he does have a certain grasp on a dogs behaviour.
10) Caesar also highlights the plight of homeless dogs both in the states and Mexico and this is a good thing and so what if he has had some of his pack rehomed ( I really doubt he chucks them in dog shelters ) - if he has sent them out to families as more balanced than when they came in with a second chance of life and made a vacancy for another dog with a death sentence hanging over its head then good. His wealth may irritate some but he cant increase the size of his pack exponentially - even the best teachers couldnt control a classroom of a hundred kids day in day out.

But even if we did include him alongside trainers - is Caesar the best dog trainer in the world? No and he doesnt profess to be so, but it just offers an alternative way for people to look at things and I vehemently believe that if that alternative way has saved a few more dogs being given up as lost causes and sent to be rehomed then good for him - if his show has tipped the balance in the favour of the dog in a family rather than dog in the shelter than i dont begrudge his celebrity, money, foreign accent or occasional disagreeable technique.

In my own experience since watching his show my confidence has increased - even though i thought i was a confident person before. My hyper cavalier seems calmer and more relaxed and i havent laid a finger on her ( though the anti CM brigade will tell me its because Ive broken her sprit by saying shhh at her ) though still retaining enough of her highly strung qualities to test our patience, my staff now realises that manners havent really cost him anything and my fearless GSD pup is as bold and as brazen since the day I got her but with a healthy and still very loving respect for me. And I can let my three dogs come into my goat enclosure to satisfy their curious natures but now I feel confident that at all times I can conduct proceedings.

Is CM 100 percent right? absolutely not, but nor am I, nor anyone in this forum, but the show is more a vehicle for good than not and I believe the intentions are to give hope to dogs with bad press than to sensationalise animal brutality.

He seems good, I like his shows from what I have seen but I was really surprised the other day when I saw the dogs he was walking / training had on prong collars - I don't really know what I think of those...but there was me thinking it was all about perfect control.

We have referred to the collars used by CM in a few of the posts already in the thread. I think most if not all of us dont like them but its the owners choice at the end of the day.

Nothing short of an awesome post, so well put and comprehensive. Every word echo's my own pov.

I won't comment on the rest of your post cos I do believe we're all entitled to our own opinions and I've already posted mine, and you've posted yours very eloquently too. But I will say that at no point on this thread have I seen any "anti CM" people telling those who like him that they aren't dog people. In fact, I've seen a little bit of the opposite really (not from you personally).

Over and out *lol*.

Yeah sorry I just read back a bit. But as someone who doesn't religiously watch every show I would have not been able to know that, so some might get the idea he advocates such things or even that he uses them regularly - there was just nothing to say, so some may think that they would be good for them to try with their own dog? There was nothing to say it was the owners pre made choice of collar, no mention of the choice of collar at all. But now I know.

Can i just do a quick survey?
just for my own interest?

Please State PRO,MIDDLE,ANTI,
Do you "activily"train your dog? (ie attend classes or set asides time everyday/each week to activily train)
Do you train for Pet only? or Competition?or specific Job? (please state)

Thanks

im just interested in what CM methods would work in favour of

Please State PRO,MIDDLE,ANTI,
Do you "activily"train your dog? (ie attend classes or set asides time everyday/each week to activily train)
Do you train for Pet only? or Competition?or specific Job? (please state)

Thanks



Anti

Yes train most days

Train for competition Obedience