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Shanik
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22-11-2007, 11:27 PM
Originally Posted by Borderdawn View Post
Well you have to take into consideration that Foxes were controlled far better and more efficiently before the ban came into effect, now many in the countryside are shot, but not controlled to anywhere near the level they were, resulting in higher numbers and higher predation on prey species. Badgers the same, MASSIVE increases, they do so much damage and are spreading out of control. Badgers will even attack Foxes.
Come on Dawn, you know as well as I do that badgers need that protected status to protect them from the nitwits (I could call them worse) who would quite happily have a free for all and bait and kill them for fun if that status was lifted, no prosecution means no deterrent, if there are a problem with badgers in some areas then there possibly should be a licensing system for responsible folks who can reduce the numbers by a certain extent but don't you just then get badgers moving into an unused territory?
I agree with you about the Mink, sadly these "do gooders" have only succeeded in releasing a non native species that is decemating our native species, killing kittens, and literally bringing to the brink of extiction, the Water Vole. Same applies with the "Lets let all the Wild Boar out" brigade! YIPEE!! the hunters are having a field day, as before Xmas the government will announce a "cull" or "allowance" for killing them because of the devasation they are causing. yep the "antis" have a lot to answer for, more Foxes killed by inhumane methods, poisoned, injured, gassed, snared and shot, often suffering intolerable pain for days on end before finally dying. More Hares shot in hundreds, massive number reduction in some areas as farmers want them wiped out, sadly this is "animal liberation" yeah, ok!
Dawn.
Once again, myth, Mink were wild and breeding in Britain before the so-called Animal Liberationists started their campaigns, they escaped from fur farms as far back as the 1960s, although I do not agree with any action of any idiotic liberation front, you still should state the facts before blaming a group initially or blaming animals for being what they are. As Ramble says, foxes have always died using different means, you can't get a hunt with hounds in every corner of Britain, does that make us all cruel who don't have hunts?
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sutty
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23-11-2007, 08:59 AM
Dont believe that many of the Badgers you see dead, at the side of the road, are roadkill. This is a popular way for the badger baiters to dispose of the dead bodies after they have been terrorised by men and dogs, make them look like they have been hit by cars. This was told to me a couple of years ago by a Terrier man.
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Mahooli
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23-11-2007, 09:04 AM
Or they've been illegally gassed, when I lived in Cornwall someone thought disposing of them in the sea was a good idea, except they all got washed up on the beach, no injuries or wounds although the local police wildlife liason officer tried to persuade me they could have just fallen off the cliff, what 4 of them I said!
Becky
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tumbleweed
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23-11-2007, 09:25 AM
we should have an annual cull on politicians as well.

Tumbleweed
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Ramble
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23-11-2007, 10:44 AM
Originally Posted by Borderdawn View Post
No, sorry Ailsa, since the ban more Foxes have been killed in awful ways, ways the RSPCA call "humane". Poisoning is massive, farmers use it all the time, they dont want the problems the Foxes bring and are not about to go for the most humane way (shooting) and spend night after night waiting to get a clean shot, thats where the "injured" comes in.
It would be interesting to see stats though, it's all very well to say that these methods have increased (they probably have) but it would be interesting to know by how much. I agree, if controlling the fox population, shooting is the most humane method.....but of course that wasn't what was done on a hunt was it?
I thought that farmers were allowed to use 2 dogs to flush foxes out with the intention of shooting them? Did I get that wrong????http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/magazine/4286224.stm

I think, in fairness, farmers etc used all the methods you outlined before the hunting ban....the stats showing they now use those methods more would be interesting, but I guess we wouldn't be able to get them.


We have seen a big increase in the numbers at work, and their behaviour, many have mange (which alters their behaviour) and of course poses a much increased risk to our dogs too. We have shot several in daylight, we see them out all day everyday, never have before. Its because they are not managed properly now, they behave differently and cause more problems, with these problems, comes quick solutions, snare it, poison it. (of course not directly targeted, so other species suffer too) I think when you live along side it you see it more (not saying you dont) we certainly have noticed massive changes and increased numbers, but sadly also mangey, thin, lame and pathetic specimans also.
Aha....i am sure you do notice it more, but are you looking for it more as well?! :smt002 As for the mange thing, my vet told me the majority of foxes have mange....
I don't honestly believe that the hunting ban is responsible for a assive increase in the number of foxes and badgers. I think we all know that the hunting ban is largely ignored anyway. We have people using dogs to hunt in our local woods.....
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Borderdawn
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28-11-2007, 05:57 PM
Originally Posted by Shanik View Post
Come on Dawn, you know as well as I do that badgers need that protected status to protect them from the nitwits (I could call them worse) who would quite happily have a free for all and bait and kill them for fun if that status was lifted, no prosecution means no deterrent, if there are a problem with badgers in some areas then there possibly should be a licensing system for responsible folks who can reduce the numbers by a certain extent but don't you just then get badgers moving into an unused territory?


Once again, myth, Mink were wild and breeding in Britain before the so-called Animal Liberationists started their campaigns, they escaped from fur farms as far back as the 1960s, although I do not agree with any action of any idiotic liberation front, you still should state the facts before blaming a group initially or blaming animals for being what they are. As Ramble says, foxes have always died using different means, you can't get a hunt with hounds in every corner of Britain, does that make us all cruel who don't have hunts?
Do you really think a ban on Badger baiting has stopped people doing it? Just look at dog fighting, more popular than its ever been, you tell some people they cant and they will all the more.

Not in the numbers they are now! A good friend of mine worked in a mink farm for many years, she said in all the years she was there, only a handful ever escaped, when Mink farms were lucrative, they didnt want them to escape they were far too valuable I have one of the pelts here, its luuurrrvly!!:smt001 Exactly the same as Wild Boar, pratts who "think" they are saving animals have given them to culling and slaughter, as they breed in large numbers in the wild again.

Ramble.
As for the mange thing, my vet told me the majority of foxes have mange....
Sounds like he lives in the town then, because any Vet familiar with the countryside would be horrified to hear that and question his reasons behind him saying so.

Sutty
This is a popular way for the badger baiters to dispose of the dead bodies after they have been terrorised by men and dogs, make them look like they have been hit by cars. This was told to me a couple of years ago by a Terrier man.
A few years ago there was several "undercover" programs on about Badger digging etc.. one of the "antis" said the same thing you have and collected bodies for post mortem examination, not one was found to have been abused in any way and all the bodies had injuries consistent with RTA's. I understand your thinking here, but Badgers are really as thick as planks, you know the saying "Rabbit in the headlights?" well badgers are the same, they run then freeze in the headlights, very very often getting hit as they dart back and forth. If you watch some of the animal rescue programs, they have a lot of Badgers in from RTA's its the most common problem with them. Dont believe everything you hear, I do accept it may go on, but not in the numbers you might think.

Apologies for not replying sooner, I just noticed it going back a while, some of my unread posts havent been showing.
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