Hi susannah

That's really nice of you and I really appreciate it.

I'm not good if I am honest, I'm finding it extremely hard to handle.

Not sleeping or eating well, keep hearing Harvey's howl when he was PTS. It's all a nightmare.

Not posted much on here because all I can say is just that which I have said before and I don't want to keep subjecting everyone to negativity

Kenny, it's early days yet, so early. Harvey was 'your life' as you have pointed out in previous posts. You know that a lot of people here understand exactly what you are going through and don't expect you to suddenly "be over it". You must try however to get Harvey's howl out of you mind, you were in no way to blame and it will continue to eat you up if you continue to think it was your fault. The pain you are feeling will start to ease I assure you but it will take longer than a few weeks. I hope you will continue to post regularly and regard us as your friends here because we all wish to give you our support however long it takes. X

Hi popster

Thank you for such kind words.

I certainly do regard you guys as friends and I guess that's why I didn't want to just be posting negative things as I know other people have problems and need support also.

There seems to be so much sadness about in our doggy lives.

I am taking each day as it comes as I can not do anything else and each day just seems to drag on and on but hey...

I am not going to stop posting as you are all my friends but I just wish I could post something nice for you all for once

Kenny, I am so sad to hear the news.

If I am honest, I really felt there could be no other outcome to Harvey's story than this one, and though it has been very traumatic for you, you must keep reminding yourself that ultimately, Harvey was not going to get better.

Dogs do make noises when the muscles relax at death, it's true - if Harvey had been in spam his muscles would have been very tight and that accounts for the howl - the probability was he was already gone at that point, it was biology, not emotion, that caused it.

I know how easy it is to dwell on your grief and pain, like sticking your tongue into a sore tooth - you know it will hurt but you can't stop doing it. But just like the sore tooth, it serves no purpose, you achieve nothing by doing it.

You need to try and find a purpose, now, to continue with your life. You said Harvey had saved you - now it's time to prove that it wasn't in vain. Another dog could be the answer - something you can plan for, a reason to get up each morning, to do things, to get into the world. Or maybe there's a place you've always wanted to visit, a hobby you'd like to take up?

Find something to focus on so you don't spend all your time prodding that sore tooth, Kenny - you are too nice a man to spend your days smothered by grief of Harvey, and Harvey surely wouldn't want you to be that way, either.

Esau sends licks.

Hi PONlady

Thank you for your very kind words and for taking the time to post.

I don't know if there really was only one outcome for my boy, I honestly don't know what to think!

If it was epilepsy as the Vet insisted then from what I have read a lot of dogs can lead quite normal lives if the medication could have been got right and Harvey had only been on his for a month or so. Of course if it was a brain tumour then I knew full well Harvey was on borrowed time but his vet insisted it wasn't.

When the emergency duty vet said he could do nothing Harvey was mid-seizure but he was standing and from how he was seizing the Grand Mal had given way to Petite Mal so there is doubt in my mind as to whether it was a status epilepticus or a cluster?

So I just don't know and either way the duty vet made no effort what so ever to try and stop the seizure...

I don't keep deliberately thinking of the howl - I wish I could stop, it's just there stuck in my head, I can't get rid of it. It was the most haunting and disturbing thing I have ever heard.

Kenny ... why should this howl be haunting and disturbing? We tend to have a negative and very anthropomorphic view of dog howling, but it is very much not always a negative thing. First and foremost, it is communication, between canids. This is not a negative thing, it is how wolf packs communicate when members of their pack are far away hunting, but also with other packs. To me it is completely normal and understandable that sometimes at the actual moment of death our dogs let out a yelp or a howl ... Hal did, he leapt to his feet momentarily and it scared the **** out of me but at the same time I knew it for what it was ... a primieval and ancient instinct embedded in all sentient beings, us included, to fight death even whilst going through it... that howl was undoubtedly just as I have described, but why choose to think of it as a howl of despair ... instead think of it as a howl of thanks and celebration for the release.

Bless Harvey, he was a dear sweet boy

It's possible, I suppose, that the vet COULDN'T stop the seizure, and already knew that before he ever saw Harvey, ie, he knew from what you'd told the nurses when you rang.

Vets are legally prevented nowadays from telling you outright to put a pet to sleep - they can only say "there's nothing more I can do" or offer palliative care which they know is (a) going to be very expensive and (b) only delaying the inevitable.

The owner is left with having to tell the vet to do it - and that leads to all kinds of misery for that owner, guilt pangs, doubts, and all that goes with it.

The vets are human, don't forget - having to guide owners towards making such a decision must be terribly emotional, yet somehow they have to do it. I can see that could make them put on their 'professional' faces, which might make them appear cold and unfeeling, just because it's the only way they can get through what they have to do.

When I had my wonderful boy Woflie pts for epilipsey, I thought the nurse and the vet were silent to the point of coolness, and felt rather shocked at their apparent lack of emotion . . while I was paying the bill at reception, though, I suddenly heard sounds coming from the room I'd just come from - it was muffled, but definitely the sound of sobbing. Obviously, they'd waited until I was out of the room before letting go.

I'm not saying you're wrong to feel the way you did about how you were dealt with - you should never have been left feeling that way at such a time! But it might explain why the vet acted in the way he did. At the end of the day, he is a trained vet, not a counsellor.

Kenny, my heart aches for you, it really does - but it's YOU who really needs the help and attention now, because it's YOU who has to carry on. You are the one I am concerned about!

I realize you aren't deliberately trying to focus on the howl, but the fact you can't stop hearing it worries me - maybe this is something your mental-health team need to know about?

(And I'm not usually a night-owl, but I can't sleep for worrying about you, LOL!)

Kenny my heart bleeds for you, everything you are going through is so horrible and I hate that when it mattered most you had very little to no support from your vet.
While I miss Cookie every minute of everyday we had a different story and every loss is different.
If ranting and raving helps you cope then please go ahead, if you only want to keep popping in to let us know that you're okay that is fine too.

I don't think there is any point me adding anything about reassuring you that you did the right thing. I'm really sorry you are still so low and haunted by his passing. I do think with time that that feeling will get less and less. I just hope that is sooner rather than later.
Are you going for any counselling or anything? My GP has just set me up with an organisation that does it. I'm hoping it will help to have someone to vent to.

I understand perfectly what you're going through as we went through exactly that when we lost Jade. That howl invades your head and just won't go away.

It does get better Kenny, honestly it does. With me, it took three months, my hubby faired worse and it was a year before he could even think of Jade without tearing up and being haunted.

Now we can put that final minute or two out of our minds and think of our little girl with lots of smiles.

Hang in there Kenny. It does get better and that final memory will eventually be put where it should be and the happy memories will overtake it. xx

Thank you everyone, I can't say how much I appreciate everyone's kindness.

Everything each one of you has said is true and I truly hope with time it may get better but at the moment it's so over whelming.

Harvey was my whole life, he was always there when I got up with his big happy smile, excited waggy tail and lots of kisses.

This is rose tinted glasses either, he was always like this, always happy and always affectionate. Until his seizures started I can honestly say that he was never ever down or depressed and he only became so for the last two weeks or so of his life.

He was never naughty or needed correcting on anything (apart from his bladder and bowl issues during his ill health which he could not help).

He was boisterous when playing but oh so gentle when being affectionate - I don't think he could have been any more perfect if he tried.

That's a hole that can't be filled...