By hyper stimulated I mean he HAS to focus on EVERYTHING going on around him. Particularly dogs and people. If it's windy and a leaf moves in a tree, he's fixed on it sear hung for squirrels. He is anxious and thus wants to stare at what scares him to keep an eye on it.

I'm training "look" which he does well in house and 50/50 outside if no distractions but if there's anyone else in thr park then there's no chance. I have tried taking really re-enforcing things like whole sausages out and he'll still ignore them. I've tried training from a distance and getting gradually closer to distractions but unfortunately living in London makes this near impossible as there are just people and dogs everywhere.

He's frustrated as he doesn't get off lead much, he sees dogs dashing around him and he can't reach them. If a friendly looking dog comes up then I'll let him greet it but often the dig gets bored very quickly as Cain us on a lead and they run off after only a few seconds. I thunk he's feeling a mix of anxiety and frustration - he wants to interact but he's not sure what will happen. He wants to meet them but many stay away (or their owners won't let them approach because of how he looks) or they bomb over like a bat out of hell and scare the life out of him. So because he never knows what will happen next, he fixes on them. I really have tried to train "Look" but often he'll just refuse treats.

I've tried to get him hooked on a particular toy, being all mysterious with it, playing with it myself, finally letting him pkwy for just a few seconds before running off with it myself, so he really wants it. And in the house he'll do anything for it, but outside he totally ignores it. I'm running around like loony squealing and trying to be all exciting and he's just off doing his own thing.

The only thing he will respond to is a squeaky ball but the peoblem with that is that it's fun by itself so he'll just run off with it. He likes chasing but doesn't really like bringing it back. Even in the house he's gets tired of retrieving after 3/4 times, no matter what tasty treat is on offer.

In the house he is good at training, and surprisingly he can focus well around other dogs at training class as long as they aren't too close, but the open air environment just saps away his concentration. He doesn't even train particularly well in the garden at home. If I get him off lead in an empty park he will cooperate for a squeaky air kong ball but no chance of there was another dog in the park.

I do think it's partially anxiety levels are still a bit high which affects his ability to concentrate. Like I said, we're working on slow, positive exposure but living in London makes it very difficult to control and often we get swamped by strangers and dogs no matters how hard I try for a quiet walk!

HI MOON'S MUM:

I don't know if this is helpful, but again your dog sounds so much like mine. Dexter goes on red alert at every sound - the other day a woman over the road unlocked her car, and instantly he was up on tip-toes, tense and alert.

However, whereas you say you're trying to find a 'quiet' walk, our trainer has suggested the opposite. She says I have to show Dexter that there is nothing to worry about - that if I remain calm and confident, he will increase in confidence too.

We live in a busy suburb - like you, there is no way to avoid other dogs etc. There are five dogs in my road alone!

I'm no expert and I offer this purely as an idea, but perhaps trying to keep the walks 'quiet' is not helping - in the sense that then when you run into things in the park or wherever etc, it's overwhelming for your dog....?

Just a thought

Are your training classes outside or indoors?

If the latter have you thought of finding a good 1:1 trainer outdoors?

Your dog is basically environmentally unsound but currently it sounds like his is inadvertently being flooded which he cannot cope with.

Thanks TabithaJ, I don't always go out specifically for quiet walks, it's just of I want to train and I try and keep distractions to a level where he can concentrate...and it often gets wrecked by the world and his dog shoeing up I try not to avoid all of the time as it's important to socialise him.

Training class is inside in a church hall, however it better weather we go out on the streets and sometimes he runs soecisl sessions in the park and we attended a recall workshop which was outside. He seems to understand "training class" and settles and works well. I think because the group stays together maybe? The same dogs are around him, they are also on leads, under control and training quietly. I think it's the constant coming and going of dogs dashing around playing off lead in parks that distracts him so much, it's quite a different set up to training class. And heaven forbid if another dog has a ball, he'll pull my arms off trying to chase it....he doesn't want his ball...no, it has to be the one over the other side of the park!!!

I don't think his age helps him either, he's going through one heck of an adolescence. Although I can see him maturing just a little lately. We just got back from a training street walk to work on his lead walking and I got several "looks" out of him while people around (concentration threadhold seems to be about 15 feet away) which is a start, but no hope in parks. I also worked on trying to hook him on hid toy, he got very excited about it in the garden, but again I think he'll ignore it in the park.

I'm crap at explaining stuff like this in writing. The play stalk has softer body language and movements, the end result is usually nicer too!

Adam

Moons mum.

The problem is you have no ablity to enforce your wishes over his. With a dog with out much desire to please you and with his behaviours/history encouraging him to cooperate in his own time will be a pointless endevour. He just won't!

Out competing his social needs with food/toys is ineffective because he is a social animal with a high need to socialise, this is not being met but he gets fed and played with everyday so why should he substitute something he really needs for something he gets easily?

This is the problem with the methods you are using imo, you have nothing he needs!

If it was my dog I would find a way of making him do what I wanted then using dog interaction as the reward.

I believe a wrote a bit about him ,months and months ago about making dog contact contingent on wanted behaviours.

Adam

Yes but the problem with the theory is the inability to set up the controlled senarios. Firstly I don't walk at regular time and I've had trouble making many dog walking friends, lots of people simply avoid Cain based on looks. I would need their cooperation to be able to use their dogs to train him, but I rarely see the same people twice.

Also most dogs who are off lead coming careering up to us and even if I turn and walk away with Cain, pften they will follow us. So even if I was able to get him to offer a more appropriate behaviour, I have limited control over access to the other dog. Regardless of whether I have Cain in a sit or not, the other dog will come over. I also struggle to keep Cain far enough away from other dogs to allow him to concentrate, the park is so busy that often the dogs are too close and Cain has already gone deaf. If I walk away, it will follow. I agree that the technique you suggested would probably work, but only of I can engineer the situations and control the other dogs - which is proving very difficult.

While obviously the behaviour needs to stop, I'm hoping once he is accepted to dog socialisation classes it may improve. Mainly I just want to understand the behaviour - I'd it agggression? Predatory? Anxious? Play? I want to understand what it means.

Unfortunatly the style of training you utilise leaves it up to him, so every time he choses to ignore you and stalk ect he gets rewarded.

With your current approach there is little ways round this, certainly you've been on this for a year and have still got him over keen on dogs.

My advice re contact/contingent applys to any situation.

Adam

I too have been trying to figure out Dexter's strange stalking of other dogs in the park. To me it looks almost like he goes into hunting mode. I don't know if this makes sense though given that he's a Labrador...

I tend to think it's 'play', actually, given that if he reaches the other dog Dex then leaps around and does a 'mock bow'. Combined with poor socialisation thus Dex (and maybe your fellow) is just unsure as to what constitutes a 'good' approach.

I really do empathise though - I've had some embarassing situations in the park when people have seen Dex slinking along on his belly, then prowling and then hurtling towards them and have looked frankly terrified

Does he lie still on his belly? or does he crawl on his belly, like he is stalking?

Jake stalks rabbits, but when he does that he is walking with just a very slight crouch, with his head down. Sometimes when he sees other dogs, he drops right down onto his belly lying flat. I don’t know why he does this with dogs he hasn’t met, but he also does it to his doggy friends. He usually (when he is offlead with his friends) will drop down like that, as though no one can see him then when they get closer, he jumps up and they start a game of chase. One of his other doggy friends does the same thing. When he meets dogs for the first time, and does that, he doesn’t want a game of chase he just jumps up sniffing, with his tail wagging… I don’t think it’s always due to lack of confidence, I certainly don’t think that is why Jake does it. If Jake meets a dog, and he is a bit worried/anxious at first, he will sit and freeze… he never drops to the ground and freezes… I don’t know why he does it though…