Slightly off-topic, but it's nice to see people plan like you are Joedee!!

Regarding Moobli mentioning 100%+ training in working dogs, in addition to Joedees account, I think Patch said her father was a military dog handler who only used 100%+ methods.. (I think!)

Yep thats right
He guided me in protection training my Alsatian to give me more safety when walking him alone at night and when at home alone, [ and because he knew what he was doing of course - protection training is very specialised and not for the inexperienced to try ].
My fathers belief was, [ and still is so many years on ], that the kinder I was in the training the more my boy would *want* to protect me but in a totally controlled safe manner, [ as in not just being possessive-protective ].
All his training was done with play and fun orientated methods which meant my boy was not aggressive through any fear inducement so did not have an unpredictability so common with `harder` trained dogs.
My lad [ and my Gremlin now ] could grip someone one minute, `out` instantly when cued, then sit happily for cuddles from the `target` in the blink of an eye, also on cue.

Another thing I would like to add, which Joedee can bear out I`m sure, is that with abused dogs, necessity really is the mother of invention in terms of finding ways the dogs can cope with and will gain trust and confidence from in their fosterer / kennel handler / new owner.

I honestly believe that if more dogs were brought up from the start with more positive methods and games, and less `master / subservient` type, older style stiff / harsh / cold / almost clinical `by the book` training, there would be far less dogs around with human aggression and other fear based issues

..and amen to that from me too !

How gratifying to find so many like minded people in one place! This thread has made my day...

Here here..... not only an interesting and informative thread... but an example of how different people with different ideas, opinions and beliefs can discuss and share them without becoming aggressive and insulting

Great thread, thanks all :smt041

Now who wants a fight *runs away*

like gsdlover and moobli I use both, I also feel pos alone would take a long time and it (jmo) would not give you a garantee of behaviour, not really worded it well,


Many people that talk to me who own large breed dogs assume I rule with a hard hand to keep my rottweilers working well and doing as they are told, it really gets me that people think the only way to get a well trained dog is by sheer force, if Im being honest the rotts are softer in temprament (with there owners) than you would think, if I were to hit them it would have the affect of crawling on the ground shivering and weeing themselfs, they are truely very easy to upset, they want to please so much, if i ever do have to really get on there case, and its never in training as such, eg vinnie pounced on beau the other day to pinch his carrot it scared the crap out of beau and as it was not the fist time it had happend I got hold of him by the chops and shouted in his face to pack it in, he scullked off and never talked to anyone for around 3 hours totaly dejected looking,

So to answer I use poss as much as poss and any neg would be in as harsh a tone and really meant as poss, this tends to get the message across in rotts and often they will not repeat it again,
too many owners nark at dogs without being clear, if your going to tell a dog off do it so that the dog gets the message loud and clear, the worst offender is the choke chain happy handler, who's dog develops a leather neck !!! makes me mad that one