At the moment...

Try being a bit more optimistic - such as 'we've made some progress already'....

And excellent 'stays'?

I think it's worth bearing in mind that training doesn't just benefit the human. Many dogs love the mental stimulation of training - mine get excited when they see the clicker taken out of the drawer. OK, half of that is probably anticipation for food rewards but mine definately get into the spirit of learning new tricks. Any animal in the wild learns to develop its motor skills, hunting skills, play behaviour, etc., often with its family/pack, so I think training either practical commands or fun tricks mimic that kind of interaction/development of skills in a way. Even fun tricks can develop other skills - like training a dog to raise each paw can help teach leg awareness skills, or be useful if you want to teach the dog to let you wipe each paw down if you visit someone with clean, light carpets!

I think a dog without walks or mentally challenging training at home is going to be a pretty bored dog

I agree but for some dogs, they have a very stimulating life anyway without any need for "formal" training; I am thinking of dogs which go out and about with their owners all the time eg stable dogs etc.

Also, you can train dogs to do stuff in a stimulating and interesting way.

Many people are put off training classes which a) consist of stewarding people and dogs around a hall in heelwork, sits and downs etc and b) which are built on what a dog trainer/club THINKS they should be teaching etc.

Don't get me wrong, as you know I am a BIG fan of dog training, but I have to admit if I did not compete, I probably would not teach dog much at all apart from what is essential ie STOP and COME. If you have those down pat, anything else is a bonus.

I agree - intuitively we know that walking our dogs, teaching them and generally getting their attention is good for them and for us. I know that if I want my dog's full attention it is when training him with a titbit or clicker and he responds to the praise and excitement when he gets it right.

I have spent a period of time in a training group and I just cannot see the day-to-day relevance of getting him to sit for increasingly extended periods or to go into a down and stay for increasing extended periods - I just don't see the point. i guess the only thing in its favour is that it teaches him self-discipline (momentarily) - as I said in a previous post I challenge anyone to get my dog to go into a down when it's cold and wet and he spots a squirrel!

At the end of the day our dogs are living in an unnatural environment - and again, intuitively, it just seems right to try and include as much of their instinctive behaviour into their and our lives as possible.

Whisper does all those things lol. I now feel slightly better about my failure at getting her to obey either the 'sit' or the 'down' command......

Oh she knows them alright ...... but as rightly pointed out in this thread I think she wonders what on earth the point of doing them is. Rather than finding this mentally stimulating she quite obviously finds it very boring!

It's really quite liberating isn't it! I've come to the conclusion that as long as my dog comes back when called and behaves like a civil dog in company - i.e not jumping at people, mouthing etc - why on earth would I get him to sit on command - I'm abandoning it - well maybe that's a step too far!

Bandit is a year old now and he knows a few things but not a huge amount. He knows sit and down he sort of stays and he can roll over, he can't do any of this at a distance. He's done a bit of fun agility but that's it but...
Things he knows that help him in day to day life include:
Not going through gates in to fields with livestock (most of the field animals where I work would kill him!)
Waiting the other side in the vicinity of the gate when I'm the in a livestock field.
Staying in whatever I put him in be it a bucket, wheelbarrow or box.
Not getting under horses feet.
Not approaching other dogs unless told to.
A loose heel command.
Not to chasen any livestock.
Not to approach visitors.
And most importantly in my opinion... How to settle in the pub!!
Most of these things I haven't actively taught but through day to day life on a farm he's learnt what's appropriate and what isn't. I can take him out in public knowing he'll recall when I want, not bother people or livestock and settle when I stop. He may never know a sit stay or a down stay as others see it but as far as I'm concerned as long as he is safe when out and about with me I'm happy.

Yup mine love training so much too - and to the point they are wanting to learn new things to get the click - I have to be careful with Ben because he often dosent swallow the treat properly in his excitment to get on to the next click
I know plenty dogs can be happy without it - but for mine I know they are happier being able to work with me

Sounds like too many classes are just dull - the classes I went to with Ben the stays were in the form of musical statues - we walked round the room and when the music stopped we had to leave our dogs in a stay and go into the middle of the room. Heelwork was an egg and spoon race - she is a great trainer and always had games to challange us
Sad to hear you wouldnt train if you didnt compeate - everyones different - I love to train just for trainings sake - I like to try and work out how I would do a trick with that dog, break it down and figure out how to get it to work - even if I never get as far as finishing the trick I enjoy the journy for a learning experience


Shame you went to a dull class we had lots of relivent things at the class too - manners around people and real world leave its and stuff - as for a down in the cold and wet - I wouldnt even ask for it - if he dont like lying on the cold wet floor I dont blame him

lots of dogs struggle with some things - I have given up on the idea of Ben holding things in his mouth - he just dosent like it and it isnt important to me
everyone has their limits - noone says you have to do anything - I would say a recal and being civil is more than many people have got