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Krusewalker
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02-04-2009, 03:34 PM
Originally Posted by inkliveeva View Post
meeting an exitable jumpy dog is really quite difficult to control with a treat, you have to get them to realise theres a treat there in the first place, turning your back and simply walking away and only giving attention when the dog has settled has a much better affect imo xx
I would agree with this.

Depends on how far gone the dog is.

If the owner had taught a good strong sit from a young age in all situations, such as greeting people, then it's easier.
When you are playing catch up, you may need to teach the dog a non-reward first (ie, walking away when he jumps up). This way you break the cycle and he has to start thinking instead of reacting.
Then you introduce stage 2: the alternative behaviour:
Sit for treat or fuss or holding toy (whatever you like).
Then when people come to the door, put him in the sit yourself before door opens, then visitors can do the reward bit.

Also, you should be practising the sit for the reward anyway, in between times, when he is already calm.
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Collie Convert
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02-04-2009, 03:34 PM
Originally Posted by Krusewalker View Post
He would the first couple times, but not in the long term (as long as everyone does the same thing consistently).

Dogs learn by repetition and association.

After several examples of people telling him to sit when he jumps up, after which he is rewarded with a treat or touch, the dog would now have learnt that not jumping up equals reward.
Well, seeing as this has been tried for over a month in my case- it is not a method that works for my dog.
And also trying to give EVEry person to arrive a treat and getting them to do it is easier said than done
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boobah
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02-04-2009, 03:38 PM
Originally Posted by inkliveeva View Post
meeting an exitable jumpy dog is really quite difficult to control with a treat, you have to get them to realise theres a treat there in the first place, turning your back and simply walking away and only giving attention when the dog has settled has a much better affect imo xx
Totally agree Elaine,being a dog walker I have to pop into peoples houses to collect dogs.When I get an excitable dog it jumps up first couple visits but as I turn away and walk away from dog,they soon get message jumping up achieves nothing.I don't put lead on dog until it has settled either.Has worked a treat for me with a few dogs xxxxxxx
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Krusewalker
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02-04-2009, 03:41 PM
Originally Posted by gsdmad View Post
like i said before- every dog is different- the treat and training doesnt work for my boy and neither does turning around and walking away.
By using my knee rather than my hands (to my dog) this is not rewarding whereas using my hands he would think its fuss time.

As zena is only 5 months(i think)It is a lot easier to train at this age rather than 20 months (in my case)
You dont have to use a treat, you can use any reward you like.

Re his size and how far your boy has gone along the road of this behaviour, see my post above.

I still dont understand your knee point?
If your knee is used, as you say, just as a means of pushing him back down, how does that differentiate from using your hands for the same purpose, and therefore engendering the same 'rewarding the jumping up view' from your dog?
Unless the hands is seen as fun and the knee is seen as unpleasant?
No offence intended
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Helena54
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02-04-2009, 03:41 PM
Well thanks for all the input.

In answer to some of your questions, especially the "why does the dog do this anyway", the reason is, because she is 20 weeks old and we have been trying (believe it or not!) for 10 weeks to stop her, but the bigger she's getting the worse she's getting with HIM and him alone! Anybody else, I can get an instant sit, with me I can get an instant "sit", and because I don't know WHEN she's going to actually DO it, I'm hardly going to spend my entire life telling the poor girl to SIT just in case she DOES do a leap up on me/friend/visitor etc. etc. am I???? I can only ask her to sit AFTER she's jumped up and considering that's about 1 in 50 people how on earth am I going to know who it would be then? I can't make her sit at everybody we pass out on a walk surely? NO, I won't do that!

When I see husband's car pulling up on the drive I have once said "daddy's home" to which she went absolutely ballistic, just like she does when he walks into the bootroom, when of course I've already told her "daddy's home" from the kitchen when I've opened that door, same scenario. I've tried NOT telling her he's come home, he's tried coming in very quietly and sedately, same scenario. I've had her sitting in the bootroom with a bundle of treats (high grade treats!) in my hand and as he's walked through the door, I've spun him around to MAKE him turn his back on her, same scenario. His workbag is trodden on to get to him, she jumps up on his back and scratches it, he gives her a treat when I say quick, she's sitting down, she's got all four legs down praise her NOW, give her a treat, and off she goes on one again! This is not purely a quick jump up, hello how are you case, and this is my SIXTH gsd puppy, I've had all this before, I don't want it, I don't like it, and it's usually quite curable, but this time I am at my wit's end, and that is why I was actually wondering whether if he brought one of his legs up when she was alread UP, it might just stop her???!! My reasoning is that it is actually "blocking" her from gaining acess to the front of his body? Obviously I didn't mean to bring it up on her approach and knee her in the bl**dy chest did I, even if the gas fitter meant for me to do that! I love this little puppy, but I don't love her quite as much when she does this to my o/h, nor do I like it when she does it to anybody who's out, be it less manic and be it less often, I just don't want it, I really hate dogs that jump up!

Pidge I seem to remember you had a terrible problem with Woody once with this kind of thing, he used to have episodes of going ballistic like this and jumping up at your o/h didn't he I seem to remember? Now you've completely cured it by totally ignoring the behaviour then. The trouble I have is, poor Dave if he just stood there with his back to her and ignored her, his back would still end up in shreds, and even when he tries to walk away she continues to follow him leaping up at him and he's got his BACK to her? The only way is to let my o/h walk away with me holding her in a sit with the lead and harness, coz there's no way in this World she would stay in that sit and let him walk away from her when he's only just come home, no way!

Tonight I will try the harness and lead again, MAKE her stay on the floor, MAKE my o/h totally ignore her and when she's calmed down enough, I'll let him approach her with a treat to give her AFTER she's stayed down and he's made a fuss of her then?

Failing that, I will have to stop him coming home or stop him GOING every day! It's a total, utter nightmare, I wish I could video it for you!
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Pidge
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02-04-2009, 03:44 PM
But there is no harm in letting them know you have the treat and standing your ground, then when they are calm and sitting, they get the treat. After a few goes of this with different people, pup soon gets the message.
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Krusewalker
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02-04-2009, 03:45 PM
Originally Posted by gsdmad View Post
Well, seeing as this has been tried for over a month in my case- it is not a method that works for my dog.
And also trying to give EVEry person to arrive a treat and getting them to do it is easier said than done
But have you practiced the method the 2 stage way is described earlier and practised in between times when he is calm?

It probably is a challenge to get everyone to do the same, but my view would be its my home, please follow my requests.
And its easier if you already put your dog in the sit before you open the door and let people in (you would have practised in advance anyway). Then hand them the treat or toy or ask them to say hello or pat him or whatever.
If he is particularly tough, put him on the lead to prevent jumping up anyway, or put him in another room until you are ready.

Its all about replacing an unwanted behaviour with a wanted behaviour at the same due to the same stimulus (trigger) - counter-conditioning.
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Krusewalker
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02-04-2009, 03:49 PM
Originally Posted by Pidge View Post
But there is no harm in letting them know you have the treat and standing your ground, then when they are calm and sitting, they get the treat. After a few goes of this with different people, pup soon gets the message.
exackery
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Pidge
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02-04-2009, 03:51 PM
Originally Posted by Helena54 View Post
Well thanks for all the input.

In answer to some of your questions, especially the "why does the dog do this anyway", the reason is, because she is 20 weeks old and we have been trying (believe it or not!) for 10 weeks to stop her, but the bigger she's getting the worse she's getting with HIM and him alone! Anybody else, I can get an instant sit, with me I can get an instant "sit", and because I don't know WHEN she's going to actually DO it, I'm hardly going to spend my entire life telling the poor girl to SIT just in case she DOES do a leap up on me/friend/visitor etc. etc. am I???? I can only ask her to sit AFTER she's jumped up and considering that's about 1 in 50 people how on earth am I going to know who it would be then? I can't make her sit at everybody we pass out on a walk surely? NO, I won't do that!

When I see husband's car pulling up on the drive I have once said "daddy's home" to which she went absolutely ballistic, just like she does when he walks into the bootroom, when of course I've already told her "daddy's home" from the kitchen when I've opened that door, same scenario. I've tried NOT telling her he's come home, he's tried coming in very quietly and sedately, same scenario. I've had her sitting in the bootroom with a bundle of treats (high grade treats!) in my hand and as he's walked through the door, I've spun him around to MAKE him turn his back on her, same scenario. His workbag is trodden on to get to him, she jumps up on his back and scratches it, he gives her a treat when I say quick, she's sitting down, she's got all four legs down praise her NOW, give her a treat, and off she goes on one again! This is not purely a quick jump up, hello how are you case, and this is my SIXTH gsd puppy, I've had all this before, I don't want it, I don't like it, and it's usually quite curable, but this time I am at my wit's end, and that is why I was actually wondering whether if he brought one of his legs up when she was alread UP, it might just stop her???!! My reasoning is that it is actually "blocking" her from gaining acess to the front of his body? Obviously I didn't mean to bring it up on her approach and knee her in the bl**dy chest did I, even if the gas fitter meant for me to do that! I love this little puppy, but I don't love her quite as much when she does this to my o/h, nor do I like it when she does it to anybody who's out, be it less manic and be it less often, I just don't want it, I really hate dogs that jump up!

Pidge I seem to remember you had a terrible problem with Woody once with this kind of thing, he used to have episodes of going ballistic like this and jumping up at your o/h didn't he I seem to remember? Now you've completely cured it by totally ignoring the behaviour then. The trouble I have is, poor Dave if he just stood there with his back to her and ignored her, his back would still end up in shreds, and even when he tries to walk away she continues to follow him leaping up at him and he's got his BACK to her? The only way is to let my o/h walk away with me holding her in a sit with the lead and harness, coz there's no way in this World she would stay in that sit and let him walk away from her when he's only just come home, no way!

Tonight I will try the harness and lead again, MAKE her stay on the floor, MAKE my o/h totally ignore her and when she's calmed down enough, I'll let him approach her with a treat to give her AFTER she's stayed down and he's made a fuss of her then?

Failing that, I will have to stop him coming home or stop him GOING every day! It's a total, utter nightmare, I wish I could video it for you!
Helena, don't worry no one is blaming you for this as you're clearly doing everything you can.

Woody, as you remember was an absolute nightmare (unfortunately is again but that's a whole different stage) but his where more frustration jumps, not greeting ones. He's still jumping up at other people. Ignoring and turning our backs did work, but as you say she would rip him to shreds. The only other thing I can think of is that he shuts himself in another room away from her when she does it? She's doing it because she's pleaqsed to see him and wnats to be close to him (face=greeting in dog world) so maybe this could give her a message that jumping up doesn't help?
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talassie
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02-04-2009, 03:53 PM
Tala used to jump up at me and I cured that by ignoring her until she had quietened down and then getting on the floor and calling her to me. She never jumps up at me now unless asked (in play).

But I still have huge problems with people outside. Yes she will sit if asked but as soon as they bend over to stroke her she jumps again. Or people lose interest in stroking her because when she sits she is that bit further away. Either way it is difficult for her to be rewarded with a stroke when she is sitting. So her interactions with people she doesn't know are either as a result of jumping up or non-existent.

She also jumps on visitors to the house.

I can't really ask strangers to lift a knee so am interested to see if anyone has another way.

The dogs I had before didn't jump up. Tala likes to lick faces and I think this is why she jumps up.
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