NOOOOO!!! Everyones great in elkhounds! Feel we are very lucky to have such sporting exhibitors.

Yep, so do I, reckon the old hands would soon put anyone who tried that sort of thing on in there place, in the nicest way of course

Have had nothing but help,advice and support in the 4 years with elkies....lovely people!!

Maybe i should get an Elkhound instead! Sounds much nicer!

I agree with the fact that all judges have different tastes! I actually know the judge from today as we were thinking of using one of her dogs to mate Chloe to and we saw that her dogs were smaller with the short legs so that was obviously her preference. But i do think that sometimes the judges will pick out people they know/recognise and automatically put them above people they dont. There were several of us 'newbies' there today and i saw more than a few dogs who really weren't what i'd have called a 'proper' labrador being placed above them.. Some had really bad, flaky coats/skin, others were badly behaved.. But they had well known handlers. Maybe that makes a difference

I wouldn't take the judges placings personally. I've done enough horse showing to know that somedays you come first and some days you come last with no reason or explanation lol Meg and Riley have been doing ok in other lab classes so we will see how they do in the ones they're entered in, but i dont think we're going to be taking the showing too seriously now. It seems, with labs at least, it depends more on who you are than whether you have the best dog.

Jessica
you are new to showing and will not yet understand why some dogs will be placed above others in some cases.Misbehaving is not a reason for dismissing a good dog...at the end of the day if a dog has good structure then playing its handler up does not change that.
The judge has the advantage of putting his hands on the exhibits and in doing so can 'see beneath the coat'...some thing the rest of us can't.
I'm sorry you didn't enjoy your day....but obviously your opinion of a 'proper' lab was different to the judges.We all think our dogs are the best....but the judge has the unenviable task of picking the best on the day.It is often said that judges pick 'faces' rather than dogs....however I find it is often sour grapes(not saying in your case since I wasn't there) and that the faces more often than not have the better dogs since they have the experince within the breed.
Its a shame that one experience has put you off....if you have belief that your dogs are up to standard then you should stick at it and they will get there in the end.However when people have sub standard dogs(and thats not aimed at you since I don't know your dogs ...and sub standard is meant as in showing standards) it is often disheartening to be continually thrown out.Some of us carry on for the fun day out...some give up.
I now have my oldest elkhound in the open class...up against all the champions.I KNOW he will be thrown out 99% of the time BUT he enjoys it,I enjoy it and we enjoy making up the numbers!!
I have 3 elkhounds...non of which are 'champion' material!! However we enjoy the showing and the people and depite paying our £20 a class to be thrown out will continue to do it.We go to compete....winning is a bonus!
I think its a shame that lab people ( and other breeds) can't be more friendly towards each other....

I wasn't trying to imply that my dogs were the best in the show, far from it. Although i think my dogs are lovely (of course i do, every owner does!) that doesn't mean they are 'show quality' and i understand that. Though i do find it odd that dogs that aren't in good condition (flaky skin is usually a sign of some underlying problem, is it not?) should get placed in a show class at Championship level which surely should be ionly placing the dogs which are in top condition as well as being of good quality. This is just my opinion, but i find it very odd and quite worrying if the condition the dog is in does not have some affect on the placing it gets.

And as for the 'sour grapes', i guess i cant really comment on that in general, but it certainly isn't in my case We have done the showing mainly as something interesting for the dogs to do. They love the attention and its good for any dog to get out amongst people and other dogs. But also to see if they are any good. If they are then thats great, if not then theres no loss but money, and that i can live with This was our first Championship show and i've only been showing my dogs for 3 months, having never done any kind of dog showing before so we certainly weren't expecting a placing. The dogs (Meg in particular) have been getting placed well in the lab classes they're doing so i dont think theres anything really wrong with them, but against some dogs that have qualified for Crufts and already have CCs as some did today we didn't really expect much.. But i do stand by what i said. I really do think it makes a difference if the judge recognises the handler! If they see a well known and respected handler showing a dog i think they'd be more likely to think it is of better quality than a 'newbie' handler with pet dogs that are doing showing as a hobby, as i am..

But maybe thats just me..

Archer - like you I go to shows to enjoy myself, but if you are being treated like the dirt on peoples shoes that must be difficult. Think I would say carry on till you know which judges like the type of dog you show, and then give the others a miss as it is too expensive, well that is my advice but there are judges I enter under knowing that I will not be taking a dog that will light the judges fire just because I respect them and would still like to show under them.

Jessica - Can't answer for your judge, but I find I am concentrating far too hard on the dogs in front of me to even consider who has the end of the lead. Agree that how the dog behaves does not enter into the placing unless it is so bad that you are unable to judge it properly and then it may go down the line just in case because of it's behaviour you have missed something horrid In your case I think I would have stopped looking at the final line up and asked the steward to tell the exhibitors to spread out so I could see them all, I may have, in the case of Elkhounds asked the exhibitors myself as we do all know one another and are not the most formal of exhibitors or I may have pulled you out and placed you at the top end of the line, not for any reason except it would amuse me to let the perpetrators know I was not that stupid as to be intimidated by them or any one else.

Scruffy or dusty coats, well that would not be my first concern, it could be that the dog was coating and this can cause this so I may well give the dog the benefit of the doubt, and IMO the type of coat is important but I would forgive a coat that was a bit ‘dusty’ although I would prefer to see a dog gleaming that is not the most important thing and a well constructed dog will win over a gleaming coat, flaky skin or not.

Hi Jessica, I'm sorry you had an experience that you did not find enjoyable at WKC. The behaviour of the rude exhibitors is disgraceful, but as you know, I did mention it when we chatted when Reily and Meg were babies, I know personally the judge you refer to, and I must defend her integrity. She has nearly forty years breed specialist experience, and I know her to be absoluetly honset, and very very knowledgable.

It's disappointing when you spend alot of money and time going to a show, and not get anything in return, I know, it happens to me too all too often, but most times you just have to take it with a pinch of salt, and look forward not back.

Try not to let one bad day spoil your pleasure.

Dawn R.

Don't give up Jessica. It can be disheartening at first. We did our first Champ Shows with Isla this year, and though she wasn't placed we met loads of great people and had some lovely days out.Of course its lovely to win but you like us are just starting out, I know with us our inexperience probably showed through, and probably affected the way the dog showed and the judges opinion. I know that in German Shorthaired Pointers everyone was very friendly, giving us lots of tips and advice, there was no 'snobbery' at all. There will be other people at the Champ shows like you who are doing it for the first time with their labs, and once you have been to a couple faces will start to feel familiar and you will relax more.
If the barging continues just do as Thordell suggested and move, maybe it is because they see you as competition. I know what you mean by dogs being placed that you don't think should but you will soon learn which Judges prefer your 'type' of Lab, you may not agree with some of the other types but that just means that you have to get yours into the ring. We used to show a solid black Pointer which is not often seen in the ring, but he was breed standard and had the correct confirmation, we were of the opinion that if they aren't shown they will never be accepted, we had a lady come up to us at a show and say that she also had a black GSP but had always been reluctant to show her - but she was going to have a go after seeing that ours was doing well.
So keep going!!

Jess welcome to the world of dogs you will never meet as many nasty people in one place most are out for their own means and most do things that are only for their own good in the long run get out while you can Lin