I have to say the ignorance AP shows is the worst example I have seen on forums---and that is saying something!

Try looking into the history of the APDT in the US and here. Then maybe you will understand the difference. They are NOTHING to do with each other except that Ian Dunbar was originally involved with both.

I know this because I was at the APBC seminar which started the whole thing off.

If the dogs you saw were working with full bite suits they were obviously trained very differenty from our dogs. Anyone can put up a training video which shows super dogs----very different on the streets---as proved by the video of the US dog that the handler was chasing---I am sure you will have seen it as you have obviously looked extensively at police dog videos from here and the US----otherwise you wouldn't be so stupid as to comment as you have. Would you?

Having dismissed all the organisations we stand ready for you to take over the world!

Frankly I doubt you have any kind of qualification beyond an NVQ or similar. If you have you gained it with your eyes shut and your brain cell on hold.

rune

Don't forget most of those posts have been made by just one person......

I am not sure if it was SITD or another one, but one similar programme featured dogs bred and trained by someone who uses shock collars and prong collars. You could, if you are skilled, identify the way the dogs had been trained.
I was not impressed.

Also Dr Karen Overall has written a couple of good articles regarding the trainingof high drivepolice dogs with shock collars and how some years later, some of them still show behaviour related to shock training in their response to commands.

It's not good, Adam. I presume these dogs were, some at least, trained on higher levels, it certainly appears so. The reality of shock collar dog training in some quarters...

Yes, they believe it's best for dogs and owners

The UK and US apdt are different. Hassen, the shock collar trainer who uses higher levels, who has had appalling training videos on Youtube, and whose videos are sometimes used by those professing to only prefer low levels, is a member I believe. There is no comparison.

Wys
x

and I'm actually off now for a while - I've had enough .

Wys
x

WW

I'm not suggesting they don't out, I believe out is an essential requirement of a uk police dog, if they don't out they don't pass and that often ahs fatal consequences.
What I'm talking about is out from an attack, so dog runs at suspect, handler commands out befor suspect is reached and dog obeys. That to me is very impressive.

Btw I agree clicker is hugely powerful. I've heard an interesting explanation for that in that the sound taps into a differnet part of the brain than verbal commands. Any thoughts on that.

Rune.
Why am I arrogant, because I disagree and don't back off?

I know the various apdt organisations have different history's, I was just pointing it out.

I can't remember if the guys were in bite suits or bite sleeves.I know it makes a difference to the training, but what matters is the result.

You know I have a qualification, with regards to other vids, I'm not intersted in random stuff on youtube, more the stuff thats promoted as good/standard for the organisation. I thought send in the dogs was good, but not as good as this vid.

I've not dismissed those organisations btw, just dismissed the none training ones making assumtions about training methods. Same as the training ones making assumtions about a method that contradicts their approach.
Btw I'd like to point out I have direct experience of most of the methods you all use (reward based) how many of you Have direct experience of mine?

Adam

First off I can't understand how anyone can get a degree and not be able to write decent English?

You are arrogant because you dismiss all the various organisations which are against your chosen training method---as if your 4, maybe 5, years experience has taught you all there is to know.

You also use the words of two of the saddest people on the net and align yourself with them. Uncle Lou and Denis the menace.

Not good.

rune

Now that has to be the most inane and ridiculous "argument" I've ever heard. I don't have to beat a child to know that it's not a good method of getting the kid to do his homework. Sure he probably WOULD do his homework if I smacked him around, but it's not humane and there are better ways to do it. So why on earth would anyone choose to explore shock collars when they know the fallout, when they know it's painful to the dog, when they know it can be dangerous to others, and when they know there are better more humane methods to use?

Have I personally put a shock collar on a dog? No. Neither have I put a choke chain or a prong on a dog.

Have I seen people training with shock collars and seen how the dog reacts to it? You bet. I see a dog who rushes to try to do the right thing to avoid the painful sensation. A dog who is anxious and nervous and on edge much of the time. I've also seen confused and shut down dogs trying to figure out what to do that will stop the painful sensation (someone mentioned Hassan here; I'm assuming they mean Fred Hassan of "Sit Means Sit"; he and his method is built around constantly shocking the dog until it does what they want it to do and then releasing the pain).

Now why would I want to do that to a dog?

Adam, you seem to have extenivley researched e coller training and the like but have not understood the basics of clicker training by your question in the above post

Yes clicker training is far different from verbal commands

From pavlovs experiment
The sound of the clicker is constantly paired with something that makes the dog very happy
It happens so often that the dog dosent just associate the sound of the click with 'oh food is on the way' the click itself actually makes the dog as happy as if it is already getting the reward
There are plenty times Ben is so focused on the click that he actually spits the treat out in order to get on to get the next click - the clicker is so rewarding

I would recommend `Adam Palmer` reads the following book, which will teach him a lot about dog training since he seems to be struggling with some concepts.

Complete Idiot's Guide to Positive Dog Training by Pamela Dennison
It`s available on Amazon.

Yes yes yes!! I haven't read that book by Pamela Dennison, but I love her book called Bringing Light to Shadow (which is about rehabilitating an aggressive dog using 100% positive training). I'd imagine this book will be perfect for Adam!