Not a problem.

This doesn't even make sense. They're going to see what as a reward for their "negative behavior"? Allowing the dog to approach when it is calm is rewarding the dog for calm behavior. How is this rewarding for negative behavior? It's pretty common in dog training to reward for calm behavior (siting instead of jumping on a person, sitting politely for greeting, etc.).

I also don't see how she'll see approaching dogs as dangerous. If anything she could see it as a frustration, but not dangeorous. In fact, if a dog is an inappropriate greeter there's a chance the dog could get attacked for that greeting by more than one dog who is not comfortable with the greeting and lashes out to stop it. Even a friendly dog might have issues with this particular dog's greetings. If that happens the dog IS more likely to think that other dogs are dangerous. I've seen inappropriate greeters turn into dog aggressive dogs because of this.

As I have said before, for a scientist of Mech's eminence to have got it SO wrong - and thus do such a massive volte face - is not credible. I will ignore your snipe about Shaun Ellis. I have been to many far flung and exotic places, but I would be dang well hard-pushed to prove it!! Can YOU prove everything that you have ever done? Why should you want to? Or need to? That's a cheap remark IMO, and unworthy of you, who I have a lot of respect for.

I think we were talking at crossed purposes here, but as I say, I cannot find your post to get my facts straight!

Thanks! It's a bit lonely on here for me - I feel like a Lone Wolf crying in the wilderness!!

Woo woo

I genuinely wanted to know how people perceived an "omega" dog. I personally do not agree with the alpha/omega thingy in a home environment to any large degree. I do though feel that dogs are very different to eachother, but they dont IMO have a specific "role." My dogs are all very different, they all get on very well, but they all have times when they get what they want, submit to others etc... without any consequence.

Dogs' ranks certainly seem to be fairly fluid, depending on the location. My guys definitely all have their roles though. Gucci - diffuser, Tai - pack leader after Mike and I, although not an alpha - Ben - beta enforcer.

The current situation is that Ben is not allowed in the kitchen at all except with express permission from Tai. When I arrive home from work every evening, Gucci does his meer cat act and barking frantically, little sentinel that he is and Tai comes forward to greet me. God help Ben if he tries to greet me first, Tai has this privilege, and I wouldn;t dream of patting anyone but him first. Once Tai has had due recognition, then Ben is allowed his pat, then Gucci. Aside from these 2 rules, Tai is pretty chilled, even when Ben jumps up on the bed, or attempts to.

I'm not sure you NEED my post (though it's fairly early on in this discussion, may be one of the first responses if I remember right). I'm just trying to understand what you meant by yours because I couldn't figure out what you think is rewarding negative behavior, etc.

Edited to add because I missed your response in the middle of my post (I often do when people do that). My post was in response to the original discussion about the dog licking and inappropriately greeting other dogs. I don't think the dog's actions are entirely fear-based.

That being said, allowing a dog to come over when a dog is fearful, especially if the dog is intensely fearful is called "flooding" and is likely to make the dog even more afraid. If I were working with a fearful dog, I would be slowly bringing the other dog over. Not allowing them to greet right away but instead rewarding the dog for remaining calm when the dog is X distance away. Then bringing the other dog into its uncomfortable zone just slightly and rewarding for staying calm and relaxed.

Fear is a tricky thing. Too much flooding of a dog with something and the dog is going to shut down and they can't do anything without shutting down. And if they DON'T shut down out of fear, they do the opposite. They attack. Neither is a good situation. With fear I work just slightly within that uncomfortable zone, slowly getting the dog more and more comfortable with other dogs coming into that zone. And I work on shrinking the zone.

I've worked with my dog's fears (not other dogs, but of loud noises and other things that she's afraid of) slowly to acclimate her to them and to show her they aren't something to be afraid of. If I dragged her to her fear and flooded her with it, she'd be scared out of her wits and shut down.

See, I couldnt live that with type of aggression and Ive never had it. Tarn here is the dog that "looks" at something, the others give it up for him, nobody challenges him, yet he never growls, shows his teeth and my word, has never attacked another dog! Breeze instigates play with Livvy, Livvy is the pup, gobby and loud, if she "hurts" Breeze while playing she is typically "sorry" but she never ever is sorry if she hurts Orey, she thinks thats great! Orey plays with anyone, gets dragged round the floor by both bitches, but is the only one that barks if anyone comes to the door. None of the dogs are aggressive to any dog outside either, but NONE of them are submissive. Breeze and Tarn ignore other dogs, the other two meet and greet then wander off, none of them ever run up to other dogs while out, but I have never stopped them.

They all sleep where they choose, with eachother or alone, Orey doesnt like other dogs sleeping with him, he gets up and goes elsewhere, the Cat and Livvy both lie ON Breeze, she never moves nor growls at all, ever. Work that lot out!!

Yes indeed. Rather frantically and persistrntly. Il have to video it.