Jackie, I never said all dogs clips looked ridiculous. I said SOME. And that was my opinion. The reason why it's done ARE NOT EVEN RELEVANT in that regard. So there was no reason for you to shoot me down like that and go talking about "blame" etc.

Also, I realize that when you see 18 dog shows and all the dogs of the same breed have the SAME haircut, that it's not done randomly and that there is history behind it.

I'm not stupid, have never been called so in my life... and dislike it being insinuated now. To assume I didn't know that there was history behind these cuts is a blatant insult of my (or really anyone's) intelligence.

Lest you forget that you are the one who stuck your dog into that "ridiculous" pile, calling his haircut silly. You are the one who got defensive when you saw my comment that of course had nothing to do with you.

I wasn't even talking about your dog. This means nothing now, and you probably don't even believe me but I actually LIKE your dogs haircut and don't think he looks ridiculous at all. I like many of the haircuts/hairstyles I see at shows, I simply think some of them look ridiculous.

There is no blame. There is no harm done. There are no problems. It's just an opinion, as I am entitled to, am I not? So please... pipe down a little.

As for the tail docking and ear cropping. I stand by what I said because I have seen it done. Perhaps it won't (always)
hide faults, but it does sometimes. Also, in dogs that don't formally show (but say their owner parades them around on YouTube or something)... it hides faults as well. As for Boxers, they are almost always docked in the USA so IDK about changes in breeding.

Regardless of all that, I generally don't agree with it being done anyway. There isn't a reason to remove the dogs methods of communication and whatnot. Unless there is a health benefit, there isn't a solid reason to crop or dock IMO.

This is what you wrote.........

When someone asks "why" it suggests they don't "know"

I was being sarcastic , in using the term silly, it was a direct response to your "ridiculous, I used MY dog as an example, nothing more, to show the reason behind those clips that you asked "why".


Might have been a good idea to say what you meant.

You`ve seen what done ??

I am confused to understand how you can know a dogs tail that has been docked is hiding a fault, as they will have been done at 3 days old, how many ear crops have you witnessed before they were cropped, again I am struggling to understand how you KNOW the procedure is done to hide a fault

All the breeds have the haircuts done for different original reasons, dating AGES back and there are countless breeds that do this so clearly I did not pose my question for a true answer. No one person could tell me the reason why every single breed has a specific haircut.

Same as you didn't truly mean your dogs haircut (that you applied) looked silly. They were said to accentuate a point, not to make a claim. I said SOME in my original statement, and I didn't mean your dog. You just managed to read OVER it.

Perhaps you should go back and re-read. Also, since you'll surely accuse me of changing what I said, you can look at your OWN quote of my comment. I said SOME, not all of them looked ridiculous to me.

I have seen pit bull puppies with huge lab looking ears and fully pricked (GSD style, as semi prick is acceptable in pit bulls) faulted ears have them cropped off to hide their faults.

A battle crop pretty much removes the entire ear. Perhaps in other breeds where a battle style crop isn't acceptable, this won't work but it sure works with pit bulls and American Bullies.

As for the docks, though it is done very early... breeding dogs with faulted tails will produce dogs with faulted tails... that docks can sometimes hide. Also, and maybe you don't think this happens... but amputations of older dogs tails are FAR from unheard of.

The tail may sit correctly at the base, but might not taper correctly at the tip. We're talking about sheisters here who select these breeds for breeding just so they can be sloppier.

http://www.donnerbergrottweilers.com...-standard.html

A faulted tail doesn't occur at the base of the tail. Docking with one or two tail vertebrae could easily hide a faulted tail in this case. Not saying these dogs would show, but just making a statement.

As this thread is about ear cropping, I will leave the tail docking statements alone.

Oh, as a final statement. I don't think that most docked or cropped dogs are hiding faults, they are merely adhering to breed standard. I simply said it can be done and I have known it to happen.

Regards the highlighted....

Which was my original point...bad breeding equals badly bred dogs.

I'm still at a loss to see how " you have seen it done" what have you seen done ?

Dogs have tails amputated in later life for all manner of reasons due to injury...I doubt it's due to an incorrect tail set, well I would hope no vet would carry out this procedure due to a " faulty " tail/ ear

One assumes when someone makes a statement ...... Same as the ridiculous hairstyles I see some dogs having in shows. I mean unless the dog is going to overheat etc. why clip their coats all weird?. It's understandable to assume you mean all clipped dogs, if that's not the case, maybe you could clarify which is ridiculous and which isn't .

I'll leave it there.....

I never disagreed with you on that point. Bad breeders do make for badly bred dogs. When I say I have seen it done, it means I knew people personally who did it. Of course I was not in the operating room, but I saw the dogs.

Though I do know a guy who personally sliced off the puppies ears without a vet and with no general anesthesia. Granted he was a dog fighter, so this hardly counts.

Since I said SOME dogs, I'll let whoever is reading it try to go seeing which dogs I mean. I assume you expected me to go listing off breeds? Again going back to the many breeds that get these clips and the unrealistic nature of that.

I don't live in the UK (or even a decent town) and vets here are not always like the vets there. I won't even go into detail about what I mean by that. Also, not all cropping and docking procedures are done by proper vets (which is why SO many of them look very, VERY bad).

By older dogs I didn't mean adult dogs, I meant puppies past the age of ideal docking. Also, most docking I've known of is done by "banding" which is when you tightly wrap a band around the VERY young dogs tail and it merely falls off.

In the end, I didn't mean your dog looked ridiculous and I think many of the haircuts look nice. I don't agree with docking and cropping regardless, and that is all I have left to say on the matter.

My Griffon pups were docked at 3-4 days of age. The tail was held upright and was docked in between two vertibrae using very sharp special clippers, the stump then dabbed with a styptic pen.

Cropping in the UK IS illegal, same with declawing a cat and debarking a dog. Tail docking is banned, although there are certain allowances for working dogs. However it amazes me the number of puppies I see advertised that are still docked. Granted, all these puppies come from working gundogs, however, I'm not sure how the breeder can say for certain that the puppy will be going on to a working home ( which is as far as I know the only allowance made for docking a puppy ). Surely not all puppies in a litter are spoken for by hunters or whatever? Has always puzzled me. I think some just try to flout the law regardless.

I find both practices barbaric and unnecessary. Different if you have an older dog with a tail injury that results in the amputation being medically necessary. But for purely aesthetic reasons I'm totally against it.

The breeder cannot know what sort of homes the puppies will go to at the age at which their tails are docked, as docking is usually done on day 3 or day 4 following birth.

If the breeder waits to find out whether or not a puppy will go to a working home, it will be a far more complicated [and painful for the puppy] to be docked at that age.

At the time I was breeding Griffons [and my last litter was well over 30 years ago] docking was not illegal, and un-docked Griffons could not be shown. Therefore all the puppies I bred were docked on the 3rd or 4th day after their birth, no later than that, because at that age it was impossible to know whether they were show quality or not.

Whilst I find my own breed a bonnier looking dog with a full tail, having seen so many Vizsla's with tail injuries ( and not all are working dogs ) that then go on to have tail amputations in later life I've got to admit that sometimes docking at 3 days old seems more preferable.

My own dog has split his tail on numerous occasions , which thankfully have all healed, but they take a flipping age to heal, it's painful and uncomfortable not to mention the blood splatter up the walls.

Working breeds are not docked for aesthetic reasons, there is a reason behind it.

To my knowledge The Kennel Club banned the exhibiting of ear cropped dogs. Not quite the same as banning ear cropping.