Where have all the good working dogs gone?

Does anyone know the reason why it is so hard to find an all-round good modern working dog ?

In another current discussion, it has been noted that most UK (and American) police forces now have to import pups from the continent in order to improve their chances of ending up with an operational dog, who is capable in body, mind and temperament for the rigours of daily police work.

My husband has struggled for a number of years to find an exceptional hill dog (border collie) to work the sheep on the heather-clad hills here in Scotland. There are many *good* dogs who have strengths in doing particular jobs at different times of the year - such as in-bye work or at lambing time, but trying to find an all-round hill dog seems to be almost asking the impossible. Why is this? Shepherds in years gone by used to be able to undertake all their numerous jobs with one or two really good all-rounders, but it seems as though increasingly the modern shepherd has to look longer and harder to find such dogs.

Is it the same in other working spheres - such as gundogs? Are Guide Dogs struggling with their breeding programmes or do they still have a high success rate?

Interested in any views and comments

Well I think part of it could be remembering by-gone years with slightly rose-tinted specs.

From what I've heard (and admittedly I don't know 100s of farmers, but have spoken to a few who's families have farmed sheep since way back) -

(1) most only talk about the odd 'great' dog - one that would do everything needed. The rest of the time, they just got by with what they had - shouting and cursing a lot more!
(2) At one time it would be unusual to have dogs to do different tasks - you couldn't afford to feed them all. So either the dog was passable (or better) as an all rounder, or it was got rid of. People generally are better off now and are maybe willing to accept keeping more dogs to get an overall better performance albeit from one than one dog.

Admitedly with the people I know, it always seems to be that the current retired dog (in both collies and gun dogs) 'was the best worker they ever had'....but maybe that also has something to do with the years of service they put in and sentimental attachment.

I agree with Hali, I also think modern farming has less use for working dogs than it did years ago,

I also think time is an issue, many many good dogs are out there but they need more time and effort in training, so are passed over. Farming these days means more machines less staff, so while a good dog is always needed, time to train a good dog is limited. I know my gsd was fab, he took a lot of training though, thank god I loved doing it,
would another gsd be as good if I got one? I doubt it, as I have got older I doubt I would put in as much time and effort.

A few years ago when I went on that MOD Police dog section visit, all of the dogs were rescues except for a Malinois that they had bought.

I don't know about collies at all, but from talking to various people, many police dog gsds are bred here by good work line breeders, although of course some are acquired from abroad. Some police forces have their own breeding programmes too.

I think Shona is right when she says that training plays a big role in how good the dog becomes, so maybe some trainers in various spheres are lacking? (Not your hubby of course lol)

I think in real working sinarios such as farms time is always limited, many years ago there would be numerous farm hands, sadly today this is not the case, machines have taken over some of there work, but cash flow on farms is not what it once was, many farmers just cant justify the extra outgoing even though they could do with the help, so they do the work of two or more men, hence they have less time to spend on young dogs,

as to other area's of training, yes people are impatient, or lack in ability, so give up on dogs very quickly,

Some very good points Hali and definitely food for thought.

The point about modern farming is another good one, Shona. Farming has changed so much over the years and machinery has definitely taken over - even the quad bike has transformed modern shepherding.

I think a lot of modern working collies are being bred from trial dogs, which is all well and good - if these dogs can also work large flocks on hills at home, as well as 3 sheep on a trial field!

Time will always be an issue with training working dogs - as by the very nature, the person handling the working dog will also be working too I am not sure whether time is more of an issue now though than it was in years gone by?

I think that is still the case after speaking about this with the MOD trainer who is helping me with Yogi's tracking. He said 90% of the dogs donated to them were taken on. However, only about 1 in 10 of the dogs donated to the police are suitable I think this is mainly because modern police dogs are expected to turn their paw to so many different roles, whereas the MOD police dogs are mainly bark and bite trained.

Which forces still buy most pups from UK breeders?

I know a few forces have breeding programmes - the Met being the biggest and most successful, but I believe many others have had very hit and miss results and so have therefore resorted to buying pups from abroad.

Lancashire always used to buy from UK workline breeders, but have recently started to resort to buying all pups from abroad.

I agree that the amount of time put into a dog's training (as well as the experience of the handler involved) helps shape the end result. However, I do believe that if a dog has all the right stuff, it only takes an experienced, good handler to bring it out - however, if it isn't there to begin with no amount of training can put it there.