Vegetarian Diet ingredients?

Ok, so this is an odd question coming from me!.....

There is a lady in India who wants to feed her GSD a non-meat diet, presumably for religious reasons, I don't know.

She's currently feeding rice, bread and egg.

Now, many poor people here in Bulgaria feed bread only to their dogs so I looked up the nutritional analysis of it and it makes for interesting reading!
http://www.nutritiondata.com/facts/b...roducts/4872/2

Anyway, she says he's growing fine, yet not putting on enough weight. I'm thinking maybe lentils as they have more protein?

Any thoughts from the carbohydrate crew?!!!

I've no idea whether this info is sound, but it does give a sample diet:

http://www.vegsoc.org/info/dogfood1.html

I'll scour my trusty Small Animal Clinical Nutrution book later and see if it throws up anything useful.

I think I would be very blunt and to the point with someone on this matter.

Dogs don't have religions, so no religious reasons for eating an inappropriate diet. If she wants a vegetarian pet she should perhaps consider an rabbit or such.

Harsh Evie..... and pretty much the response she got from everyone else!

It might not be to do with religion, it might be to do with the cost of meat. I don't know, and it's not my concern. My concern is that this dog get the very best diet he can within the constraints of the owner, whatever the reason.

If I still lived in the UK I would probably feel differently, yet living here, in a poor country, I see people here not able to afford meat, let alone feed it to their dog, so I have a different perspective.

I'd like to help this person, so if anyone does have the recipes for a balanced vegetarian diet for a dog it would be much appreciated.

Scarter - many thanks, and yes please!

Here's what the Small Animal Clinical Nutrition Book has to say about feeding a vegetarian diet:

So aside from all the standard warnings about preparing home made food there are no specific concerns about a home prepared vegetarian diet.

If you like I can scan the whole section on "Making Pet Foods at Home". It doesn't specifically tell you how to prepare a vegetarian diet, but it takes you step-by-step through formulating a homemade food. The steps explained and illustrated with examples are:

- work out the energy requirements of the dog
- figure out protein requirements for a specific dog and select a protein source (it explains special considerations when using non-meat sourcees of protein)
- figure out fat requrements for a specific dog and select a fat source
- Add a carbohydrate and fiber source to supply the remaining energy.
- Accomodate the nutrients of concern (i.e. taking account of lifestage or desease)
- Add minerals and vitamins
- Make a final assessment of the recipie.

The nice thing about this approach is that it assumes nothing. You can figure out the best possible diet for any dog (with any special dietry needs) based upon what is available or affordable.

PM me with your email addess and I'll mail it to you - is PDF format OK for you?

My understanding is that lack of fat is more likely to be the problem. If he's growing and thriving it would indicate that he's getting enough protein. Any extra protein will just be used for energy - there is no benefit (although typically no harm) in feeding excess protein. But extra protein offers no benefit over cheap carbs - and is perhaps less readily utilised by the dog. Protein, like carbohydrate, isn't very high in calories. In addition, there is an energy cost in simply converting carbs or protein into fuel. Fat has more than twice the calorie per gram of protein and carbs. Dogs typically only need between 5 - 15% fat to supply essential fatty acids and fat soluable vitamins. But some high energy dogs (mine included) need more fat than this to maintain body fat. Mine thrives on a diet with 10% fat yet is unable to put on weight (fat) unless we boost the fat content to 20%.

If you highlight the areas that interest you most I'll try and send you bits of the book that will be of most use to you.

It may also help you to figure out how to cheaply improve upon the bread only diets that dogs in your country are frequently fed!

Ziva,

I know many people would take what I said as harsh. I'm also of the opinion that if you can't afford to feed a dog properly, do not own one. My number one priority is for the well being of the dog, not tip toeing around peoples' feelings tbh.

If someone came onto a website aimed at, for eg: rabbits, and stated they wanted to feed them a meaty diet there would be uproar; and rightly so. It's not appropriate for the species.

Just my 2 cents, plus taxes.

would she be able to feed the dog any fish? Or is that off the menu too? Although veggie dogs are not something I would agree with, and it's not ideal, I see your point about not being able to get meat. I would think that a good variety of veg, eggs and bread would be OK but fish would be a good addition.

Loki's Mum - I agree, that's how I feel. I'm a rawfeeder so I believe in meat for dogs, however I'm a realist, and I live in, and have travelled to, poor countries and dogs just aren't going to get meat in these countries. To say don't get a dog unless you can feed meat would basically mean all dogs would be homeless in these countries!

I have no idea about fish in India, although I will ask. I know it is a predominantly vegetarian country, I think for cost reasons mainly.

Scarter - yes please. You've guessed my interest too! I am thinking if it's a simple and cheap enough diet perhaps I can get people to use it here too!

If India is anything like Bulgaria - it will have to be simple to do on a daily basis and cheap. When I say simple, my book has a vegetarian recipe yet it is geared towards the west so it lists x supplement and y vitamins etc and these things are simply not available here.

So, it would have to be basic ingredients, that an average self-sufficient small-holding farmer could easily get - so for example raw goats milk I know is excellent for dogs, so that could be in it. Goats cheese too. That type of thing.

Found this PDF file with some recipes for veggie diets for dogs. Hope this helps.

http://www.ahan.org/veg_dogfood_recipe.pdf

Elaine xx

Elaine, that is so bizarre - I was just looking at that!! Many thanks

Based on that recipe as it appears to have reasonably easy availability of ingredients, I've added in a few bits from my book to try and cover all bases.

It's a bit arbitrary which I don't like, yet I think it's a start!

Work in progress diet:

2 cups cooked lentils
3 cups cooked millet (for iron requirements)
½ cup Wheat Bran
2 tbs. Soy Lecithin
2 tbs. Nutritional (torula) yeast
2 tbs. Wheat Germ
2 tbs. Ground Sunflower Seeds
1/3 tbs. Molasses
2 tsp. ground flax seed
½ cup grated vegetables
1 clove crushed garlic

Mix all together and soak in hot water for about 20 minutes

Then add in:

½ cup grated/crumbled goats cheese, cottage cheese or similar
1 raw egg
½ teaspoon of ground eggshell powder (provides 900mg-1000mg calcium) - dry in oven on low temp before grinding.
1 tbs. Oil (organic, un-processed oil) optional for healthy dog, not cooked
Vitamin E supplement (200iu)

Feedback on balance anyone - especially on phosphorus/calcium ratios which are the most important for a dog?!!