I certainly think that the Bakers wouldnt be helping, I've assessed quite a few dogs and quite a few of them have been on Bakers and when I informed the owners of the additives etc in Bakers and the effect it can have on a dog they have been quite amazed. When they then changed their dog to a more decent food, the correct exercise (mentally & physically) those changes alone have made a huge difference.

BC's are a working dog and although this person may of purchased this dog to be a pet, the BC may have come from strong working lines and so the natural instinct for this dog to 'herd' might be quite high and hence why it may of chased/nipped this young girl, the BC may of been herding?

The house move may have also unsettled the BC and may be the cause for this unwanted behaviour.

Steph

I think the house move has played a part,,, but Im kinda unsure why it should have such a massive effect on her behaviour,, I think prob if I chat to them I may uncover something else,, I just get the feeling there is more involved here than the house move alone.

x

Hi Shona

Yes, Bakers does have alot of colourings in it and green, orange and yellow bits and yes it is the equivalent to giving smarties to kids. Bakers also has a 23% protein level - if I gave my rottie a food with 23% protein he'd be bouncing off the walls and trying to take over the house - my rottie is on a food with 18% protein I did try him on a food (made by the same company) with a slightly higher protein level, 20% I think, and he got very cheeky and gobby and Murphy isnt like that so food can make a huge difference - of course, there are dogs that are on Bakers and they are ok on it but I wouldnt touch it with a bargepole, I have the same opinion of Pedigree.

The fact that the dog was initally in front of the girl but then shot round the back of her and then nipped/ripped her jeans suggests a 'herding' reaction to me, why didnt the dog rip the girls jeans from the front? Working BC's always herd the animals from behnind I think - of course, nipping etc whether the dog is herding or not is wrong but it suggests that the dog may not be mentally stimulated enough so he/she is making up his own entertainment/job so to speak.

I would want to know what the owners do, if anything at all, to mentally stimulate this dog - physical exercise for a BC is sometimes not enough, enough hence why so many of them excel at agility, flyball etc.

Some people dont realise that the smallest of changes in a household can have a huge effect on a dog, especially one as intelligent and sensitive as a BC.

yup, thats my next port of call, finding out about the home life of the dog, when she is walked, where, when fed, how often, yaddy ya da, then compare it to her routine before moving,,, sometimes Its like you have to turn detective to get to the route of things, lol
but as you say,, so often a tweek here or there even the smallest one can have huge benifits to the dog,,and owners,, will update this thread when I have chatted to her,

I know others here will have a lot more experience but it does occur to me to wonder how the dog views its owner's OH. My last collie had a definite order about who he obeyed me, my son, and then OH.
We regularly walked him past cats with no problems. One day a friend had him and Sam suddenly took off and went for a cat he saw every day .....no warning at all, just out with someone else.
Collies need to know whose in charge. Could he just need reminding of his place in the pack?

Again im not sure, I havent met the OH yet, so cant say who the dog tends to respond better too, though there was a problem in the house when the girl who brought her to training had some friends round and she became snappy and aggressive, she had been there and the dog didnt stop the behaviour untill removed from the room, I think even when removed they dog kept barking from another room, so im not sure if its just a problem with him,

sounds a little like 'pack dominance' to me - you're not part of my pack so bogoff - if this is the case then back to basics and some NILIF (Nothing in Life is Free) would be good as it would bring the dog back to where it shoudl be in the pack order - some dogs naturally elevate their status if given the chance...My rottie, Murphy, can be like this hence why he is not allowed on the sofa, up the stairs, is made to sit and wait before eating, I walk through doors before him etc and my whole fmaily (including the kids) follow the same rules - there no point in just me doing it. It would be interesting to know who does all the training, feeding etc with the dog or do the whole fmaily share.

I totally agree Shona x

Hiya, I am the owner of the Domino dog. I have found your replies and views very interesting and helpful and would like to thank Shona for the effort she is putting in to helping us. The reason my partner and I moved was because we were in a flat and we got a new neighbour across the close, a young guy who thought that it was acceptable to have a party on every day with a Y in it. There was always fights and windows and bottles getting smashed and when I was in the flat just with Domino I was scared, I think that this behavior has stemmed from there. This guy was the first person to feel Domino's wrath and to be honest Greg and I hated him that much we didn't see the behaviour for what it was, we just thought she was being loyal and protecting her home. This behaviour then extended to the guy's friends when she saw them, our male friends and any workmen that were at the flat. Now that we have moved home it is everyone that she doesn't recognise, Gregs aunt and uncle were round the other night and got a taxi home, we all stood at the front door and waved them off, Dom stood wagging her tail and stuff but as soon as the taxi driver came out the car she went ballistic. With people she knows she is the friendliest and most loveable dog but with strangers she turns into a hellhound.

With regards to the excercise, she gets much more in the new house than she did in the flat, she gets more, longer walks, plays in the garden, got loads of parks around us so we take her with one of those plastic things that throws the ball really far. After the incident in the park, we have got Domino a crate for in the house to try to address the dominance problem and a muzzle for when she is off the lead so that we don't have any disasters. But the muzzle means she can't chase balls which is what she loves and gives her the most exercise.

I have changed her food, from Bakers (23% protein) to another one from Pets at Home (18% protein). Greg and I have thought for a while that a lot of the problem is because she listens to Greg but not me, but I have to say that since making the changes, the crate, the more exercise, the muzzle; the food, she is becoming much easier to live with and does things on the first command from either of us and she is getting better at walking on the lead. I am prepared to put a lot of effort into this, I think that we made a rash decision maybe the wrong one in getting a Border Collie but I want to try and make it work so I'm open to all suggestions. I'm taking her to a Behavioural Therapist in Greengaires tomorrow night so hopefully she will offer something different.

Sorry for such a long message, but I felt that I should try to give a bit of background. Louise x

Hi Louise, so glad you joined, its good to talk to like minded people about problems, there are so many collie owners on the forum, I didnt update the thread on Friday after talking to you, but feel its only fair to do so now,

RE: park incident,

I had picked Louise up wrong with this, the ball rolled up behind the girl who was walking along texting on her phone and I believe moving a tad to slow for Dom's likeing, so I guess given the breed she was doing what collies do with sheep to shift them on a bit {not that this makes it ok, but if does go a long way to explaining the motives}

Louise was very upset over all of the problems, its taken me this long to calm her down, bless. Dom is super smart, so clearly there has been time and effort put into training her, Boobah was telling me about the toy thing were you put a handfull of toys out and tell her to get one,,
she is also super high energy, which I hope we will begin to channel soon,

chin up Louise, things are improving, glad your feeling a bit better about it, I had truely felt for you on Monday night, but the change in your voice when we talked on the phone on Friday made me feel your coping better,
Its by far the end of the world with her, she is so smart,

ps,, have you had the bill for the jeans yet? Knowing your luck they will be megga expensive ones,,lol