What on earth are you on about Clob?

If you want to test how our users feel perhaps I ought to initiate a campaign, and let the numbers speak for themselves?

Of course the campaign would be for real and all actions count towards getting the ban in force as soon as possible. In addition any pro-ecollar threads will not be allowed, so not only do you lose a platform to try and 'win-over', debate your point but in one swoop add not just 3,000 odd members we have to the fight, but all those site visitors who are not members. It may surprise you but we have many more site visitors browsing our site than members (not everyone wants to post/participate, being more than happy to just 'read' the site). Our 'readership' when taking into account total visitors to the site is comparable to the monthly circulation of the leading dog magazines.

If we joined forces with the other top two dog sites in the UK we would probably be in a position to represent around 90% of dog owners who use the web for anything dog related.

I want to apologize for mistaking acronyms during my first post--your questioning about my previous trainer made me look her up again and I realized she's a member of Federation of Dog Trainers and Canine Behaviorists (FDTCB), rather than APDT. I'm very sorry I misrepresented it and I'm posting this correction--I apologize for any confusion this may have caused. I honestly don't know the differences between these various associations. However, they nonetheless claimed to use positive, humane methods and that they could solve my dog's problem with their training course and personal consultations. Our trainer was also quite famous with several books out and several tv shows under her belt.

C.H.

OOOOOOOOO!!

Can I ask whay there are direct links to the sale of e-collars on this site Az?
Dawn.

Because they are people advertising through Google. In essence we simply 'give' google x amount of space and they place the ads _they_ want to. If we joined the fight against the collars we could manually add those urls to a 'filter' meaning they wouldn't be shown.

Cth1013
What's really needed is an unbiased study in which stress levels of the dog are tested during normal use of an e-collar in training vs. other fear-inducing things like loud, surprising sounds like horns and rattle cans

Denis
I know of no studies using normal levels or modern collars, however, there was an abuse study of dogs in 1996 by behaviourist Matthijs B.H. Schilder.

He abused the dogs by leting off a Tri Tronics 100A collar, obsolete 1996, and 115 decibel foghorn, both out of the blue, and then tested for saliva cortisol. The response to the sound blast showed more stress than the deliberate, chronic, misuse of the old Tri Tronics

In the case of VS, it was a TV series so none knows if VS did sensitivity tests before useing sound blasts, in the case of Cth1013 and Wesley no such tests were even mentioned or suggested, there are to many amaturs roaming round shouting 'Behaviourist/Trainer' these days.

Ref,
Behavioural, saliva cortisol and heart rate responses to different types of stimuli in dogs:
Bonne Beerda a,b, Matthijs B.H. Schilder b,), Jan A.R.A.M. van Hooff b, Hans W. de Vries a, Jan A. Mol a

Know what, I always thought (given other threads) everybody was entitled to their opinion, and you are one who always said that each person may view things differently and we should respect that, seems on this one, Pro e-collar folk dont stand a chance, and you as the site owner are joining in. Its very one sided, even though I dont like them!
Dawn.

A very important point which I feel sure you will correct on all of the other forums on which you have posted??

Sorry Az, what I meant to add was that I know what its like to be on the receiving end of continual attack from people who do not share your views, Dogsey (had to correct that!) has always been one of those forums where you CAN express an opinion, which is why as the site owner I was dissappointed in your input on this thread. Forgive my ramblings, just speaking aloud.
Dawn.

There comes a point, when something as big as 'Dogsey' has obviously become, has to comment on current issues in dog world.
Az, I hadn't even considered the idea of Dogsey joining in the anti ecollar thing, but ya know what the idea is now growing....

clob, please get a grip and stop quoting and misquoting it does you no favours at all.

CTH, I'm making a guess at who your trainer was now...

CtH, as you have probably gathered this is an emotive subject. Dennis has done himself no favours in the past.
Ecollars hurt dogs. Nobody would suggest you use a prong collar or choke chain on here either.Positive training methods, given time, work.
I see no reason for the use of an ecollar..ever in this country. They are cruel, barbaric and outdated.

Dawn, I alwatys had the idea you were a bit pro ecollar so I'm delighted at your posts! I agree about the freedom of speech thing, but ultimatley if something is cruel, surely it shouldn't be open for debate?????

In my eyes, ecollars are either cruel or they're not. there is no middle ground here. Az.....

Az...what a good idea.....