Getting dogs under control - Premack

I've noticed there are a few threads where discussing the control of dogs and how to do it has been mentioned a lot. One of the things that is rarely mentioned is the Premack Principle, which is a very useful thing if you can manage to set up the situation well enough.

It's put very simply "Grandma's Law" and says "eat the vegetables before you have dessert". It's about making a behaviour contingent on what you want them to do first. It's something I used to help with loose lead walking and also a Wait during working trials.

There are some articles on the net about it now.
Here is one:

http://life.familyeducation.com/dogs...e=2&detoured=1

there is a silly advert break on it, but do ensure you go onto page 2 + 3!

The methods helps a lot with dogs who are lead pullers, or who don't come back and lots of other problems.

The trick is to make the thing the dogs really really want as being contingent on doing something you want them to do ... as explained here:

Becoming a Master Manipulator

I am working with two Beagles. Now that breed has a natural tendency to have their noses on the ground 24/7. Why? Because we humans bred in that behavior. So instead of fighting their “Beagle-ness,” we worked with it and exploited it. The first week, we asked (okay, we lured … and then asked) for about one minute of attention and then let them go be Beagles for about 10 minutes. Then we repeated the process and asked for two minutes of attention, and then 10 minutes of being a dog. By lesson number three, they were both glued to their owners for 15 to 20 minutes at a clip.

The moral? Work with your dog, not against her, and you will have the dog of your dreams.

I did this sort of thing with my dog:

For instance, you may realistically only be able to get two steps of loose-leash walking before racing to the lake. That's okay. You can build that to three steps, then four, and so on. Make those first approximations small, and you will see success.

You do have to be quick with the reward - if you ask for a step of loose lead and then a sit and then freedom, that is confusing - I asked for a step of loose lead and then immediately "Yes"" and she was unleashed! Timing is important, as ever.

Thought it might be interesting. I will try to find some more links too

Wys
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Great advice Wys. Do you think it would work with an older, stubborn dog?

I would imagine so - what are you intending to do?

If the principle is followed carefully, I see no reason why not ...

Wys
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I am working on this with a Doberman at the moment.....we have tried some other things with him - and although he was good with me - he is very naughty with his owner!

(I have been trying the CU stuff with him)

Also been trying it with a youg GSD who is not great on the distraction side of things.....

we were doing premack exercises in our school recently

its quite interesting

Here's the same info as the previous link but in a more fun format, as it's taken from her book (it's Pam Dennison)

http://books.google.co.uk/books?id=0...age&q=&f=false


Wys
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Yes, I haven't read CU yet (although have it on my bookshelf - will get around to it one day!) but I understand Leslie McDevitt has some very good twists to using the principle

Good luck with the dobe and gsd

Wys
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Tis indeed. Any particular exercises that might be of interest?

Wys
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When I go out with Daisy I spend a lot of time throwing her ball (she`s obsessive, what can I say).
A lot of the time, to get me to throw the ball I ask for a behaviour - sit, paw, rollover, whatever. When she`s done it I throw the ball.
Or sometimes I go and hide the ball (her mostest exciting game in the world). So she`s doing a Stay while I hide it - the release is the reward.
I know she has a short attention span and a quick arousal. So short, exciting excercises are the way for her.
This is just Daisy - it wouldn`t work with Shamus.
Shamus needs repetition, repetition, repetition. And gentle reassurance.
I think you have to find the `key` to each individual dog - and also accept that some dogs will never be Lassie.
I`m not knocking the method or theory - it`s just that I don`t think any method will `work` with every dog (and handler)

Its very good - It is nice and easy to read and is laid out well. Some interesting ideas for classes - there are some standard things (relaxing on mats etc) but some other interesting ideas as well.

She talks alot about biofeedback and natural responses as well, and a book called Clinical behavioural medicine by Karen Overall....thats next on my wish list!