What do people think is the use of a prong collar?

I can see how they work... not jerked, but tugged tight so that they pinch a series of sharp pains around a dogs throat akin to being grabbed by another dog...

But surely this would just make the dog collar shy, or phobic? I can't see a place for their use at all. Can't see a place where a headcollar wouldn't have the same effect and with no trauma or pain to the dog. I see dogs in prong collars and they seem to come in two types: The ones trotting alongside the handler, anxiously bouncing and glancing at the owner constantly for reassurance, submissively wagging it's tail desperately trying to appease the strange invisible beast that grabs it's throat every time it pulls ahead or investigates a scent.

And the ones that pull on regardless, insensitive and immune to the pain.

Either way, not well adjusted animals...

Prong collars are about the only issue that get my blood boiling evey time, never mind the injuries I have seen suffered by dogs who's owners have incorrectly used, fitted, or left the collars on. They are simply barbaric..

Mind you that was before I even heard of this dominant dog collar and the practice of hanging a dog until it passes out??? What on earth do you think the dog learns from that?

Colour me shocked!

I must live in a bubble. Never, ever could I have imagined that a dog "trainer" could resort to such horrendous methods to get it's dog to "submit". I'm competely dumbfounded, truely. This is animal torture parading as training. It's so bonkers I could almost laugh if it wasn't so terrible.

Prong collars look like another insturment of torture.

Ecollars I hate too. (Will start a thread looking for advice on this). Maggie has been given a couple of electric shock off us today, you know like you get off the car, and it has totally scared her. She touched us with the tip of her nose and it gave the tiniest little shock. She now won't go near the patio where it happened. This just proves to me that an ecollar is training using fear (in Maggies' case anyway) and is just horrible.

Prong collars are a lazy mans (or womans...) way of training. A quick fix. I believe that they are banned in this country, but I have still seen people with them. I suppose they are available in Europe (I think?) and obviously America; I saw rows of Prongs in a Petsmart last time I was in the States in 2006. So, not hard to bring back to this country.

The exact same thing happened to my boy when getting into the back seat of my car. He is very reluctant to go on the back seat now (but happy to get into the boot, thankfully!), so I dread to think what an e-collar would do to him. And I have tried an e-collar on myself (lady I walk dogs for occasionally uses the vile contraptions) and it was NOT comfortable, even on the lowest level setting, as some moron macho trainers would like you to believe.

I see absolutely no need ever for the use of a prong collar or ecollar or any other such aversive 'training method' (and I use that term exceptionally loosely in this context).
The methods are both barbaric and outdated.

Or alternatively you could keep the dog under close control (ie on a lead or longline) when around sheep.

labradork, prong collars are not banned in the UK and are easy to get a hold of

http://www.johnhumphris.com/products.asp?cat=43, a UK site, one of many.

I think that pinch collars and e-collars have their place to deal with particular training issues. They are not usually required for the average pet dog, because their temprements are for the most part completely different from some of the high drive working dogs I have seen, and as such they are not as strong-willed.

For reasons that have already been explained, I think that the prong collar is a better collar than the choke chain if, for whatever reason, a handler decides to resort to such a collar. Just for the record though, I have never used either collar to correct my dogs, they wear half checks.

With e-collars, the only use I can see for them really is for problems such as sheep worrying etc. I know that they are used as everyday training tools by some trainers to teach formal obedience commands, but I don't agree with this. Punishing a dog before it knows the meaning of a command is abhorrent to me.

I note that some of you do not consider any 'aversive' methods to be acceptable, but surely these are used on all dogs, from the simple 'no' in a stern voice, to a jerk on the lead if lunging at say a cat, to pushing a dog's bum down if he won't sit.

And what method would you use on a dog who is out of control, wilfully disobedient, has not been taught any boundaries and has no interest in toys or food or praise (some dogs don't care for any of these things)? Surely some aversive training (and I'm not meaning the correction collars or hitting the dog) should be used along with positive methods?

I, like everyone else here, do not think hanging a dog until it passes out is acceptable.

I wouldn't use any method that would cause my dog physical pain... And if I felt that prong collars and the like were my only option and I could not control the dog using positive methods only, I would admit that the dog was beyond my level of experience and put them into the care of someone who could telling them off is fine if they are playing up, but anything that causes discomfort or uses physical force isn't something I would use.

There is a world of difference in saying 'no' to a dog and uising an ecollar.

I have worked with a couple of dogs who were not food motivated, toy motivated etc...they do all have their thing they will work for in the end though you just have to find it, be it just voice praise or a tickle in a specific place!!! (How could that comment be misinterpreted...??? )

I have used headcollars in the past in order to gain extra control and in many ways that could be seen as an aversive, but the praise was immediate once the dog was in the position I needed. I also use a long line and harness to gain distance control for recall etc...again it could be seen as an aversive as I do tug the longline if a voice control gets no response,this is howver..entirely different to an ecollar or prong collar as no pain is inflicted on the dog. Anything that causes pain, IMO is wrong and barbaric.

There is NO place for such methods in this day and age.

But what do you do if you have a dog who, as soon as it gets a whiff of sheep, will cross many fields to get to sheep you can't see and cannot possibly be aware that they are there (eg if you are walking in a large forest or parkland)?

You keep the dog on a harness and longline. You work very hard with the dog on its recall and go to someone like this...
http://www.dog-partnership.co.uk/livestock.htm