that's just an extra piece of disingenuity thrown into the pot to make a list longer.

foxes freeze

inluding if you shine lights on them.

i have stood next to many a fox as close as 10 feet.

now, if you cant shoot a stionary animal at short distance with a decent weapon, then you shouldnt be anywhere near a gun, as, presumably you would be a danger to yourself (and society)

its weird, i was bought up in farms in NZ.

kiwi famers and hunters would be ashamed or too proud to admit that they were such crap shots!
they can shoot flightier deer at larger distance cleanly

why do the pro hunt lobby assume english famers would be so enthusiastic to claim their own incompetence in comparison to their antipodean brethren?
(has anyone asked the farmers???)

this isnt an arguement against fox hunting, its an argument against beefing up one's position with fatuous points.

such issues as best left to famers, they do a much better job

And it's the exact reason why I don't believe either the anti's or the pro's when it comes to fox hunting. It stopped being about hunting foxes a long time ago, sadly it's just about winning the argument for the majority these days IMO.

Sometimes, not always, and almost always bolt, whether fatally injured or not. Of course many drop where they stand, but in some cases they dont.

Momentarily, not long enough to aim and shoot cleanly in many instances. Most Foxes are shot at night.

So have I, full of mange of late and in dreadful condition.

You assume ALL Foxes wait for you to shoot them, they dont!

Really? then explain why they "hire" people with "Boar Dogs" and people to hunt and shoot Boar and Kangaroo on their land? Exactly the same reasons our farmers do. They farm the land, they hire or have other people specialised in their work to hunt the vermin and remove it. I mean I could probably do an awful lot if I tried, but if the washer breaks I call in somebody experienced with repairing them, that gets the job done more quickly and efficiently.

See above.
Is it? you are of course, entitled to your opinion.

Its a shame you cannot see the problems the farmers are facing, you would realise how totally untrue that statement is.

Bit of a different question to it that may be totally irrelevent but did the ban have an impact on the hounds? I seem to remember at the time the pro hunters saying it would have a huge impact on their welfare and numbers. Just wondered?

Some hunts did disperse, but most of the Hounds were relocated to other packs. Some have since started up again.

Oh I see, I have a little foxhound cross and living where we do we never see a fox but she spotted one the other day whilst on hol and I have never seen her so excited, really determined to chase it and baying like a proper hound. Not sure how you can ever stop that if thats what they have been bred for! I think it is beyond that though as there are much crueller things happening today. It's all just political point scoring imo.

Ali, this is not the definitive answer (You'd need to do a lot of Googling to get that) but I think that since many hunts have continued to exist, and even new ones have been formed, the impact on the dogs has not been as bad as people were claiming.

I'm sure that there will be some packs which have been broken up and sadly maybe even some dogs who have not been rehomed and I guess we don't need to think too hard about their sad fate.

I would like to think (and I do hope) that most of the dogs are still working and still alive.

Hello Dawn

being a country boy myself, ive seen countless foxes up close and personal, freeze frozen for a shot, be it camera or rifle.
foxes are pretty much 24/7.

not too sure what mange has anything to do with anything really
sounds a bit bogus to me.
foxes get mange regardless.

have no idea why you are talking about kangarooos when it comes to the quality of kiwi famer/hunters, we dont have that species.

take it from a half bred kiwi, we can hunt and shoot quite well without the need of horseman of the apocalypse.

im still not convinced that Brit farmers are so keen to be told they have smaller appendages than kiwis.

if i thought that were true, id notice many more farmers with shorter legs, other than the third one that pro hunters seem so keen to claim is lacking!!

that's the trouble with this debate, both the pros and antis beef it up with any old random.

Why do you say that foxes are vermin? As a species they are closely related to dogs ... so close that they can mate and produce hybrid offspring. As a dog lover, I am surprised to hear that you consider foxes to be vermin Jackbox.

What about badgers? Do you consider them to be vermin too?

Point being they shouldnt be!

Not as much as now, we have had many shot because of the severity of it in the last few years, since the ban and the change of use to agricultural near us, (from livestock) we have had a massive increase as no dogs now work the land as they did before. These mangey Foxes who come out during the day as they are ill, would of been killed and not left to suffer intolerable pain for weeks on end.

Was talking about Australia too, I have a friend who shoots Roos there. Considered a pest.

Nice wording, gets peoples backs up.

Doesnt deserve a response.

Again, stupid.

Having participated in Fox Hunting for around 20yrs, I feel I am able to speak with some knowledge, how about you? Being a "Kiwi" means zip, Im a pommy, doesnt mean I could farm sheep does it?