If you had to keep her on a lead though...if a law came in and you had to...you would and she would be satisfied

Really am off to bed now... night all x

The day that happens I'm jumping ship to...France! (God forbid!) Not that it would be enforable anyway, but that's a whole other thread!

We're not talking about energy levels though, we're talking about restricting hard wired instincts. I think it's very cruel to do such a thing.

So you're lumping every single dog on Planet Earth under one Umbrella term? C'mon Ailsa, you know that isn't possible, unless you've met and owned every single dog on Planet Earth!

My answer....

Do dogs NEED a good run? Most no, but some defintely!

That would never happen to me, I hunt Oscar on private land.

Defo going to bed after this one.
Not saying it is ideal but I am saying yes, it can be done...in answer to the question do they NEED a good run my answer will still be no, they NEED food and water and shelter and company.

Cosmo is hard wired to eat his own faeces. It is part of him and every family member on both sides! It is a need...a compulsion...a desire and a want, it is genetic without doubt because they all do it.
He doesn't NEED to do it though,he just wants and has an urge to. I can satify him in other ways...Naturediet when warm for example...

He also has desire...as do all his family, to scuba dive in mud. He does not NEED to do it...he wants to do it he has urges...but I can satisfy him in other ways...a paddling pool can at times suffice.

Entire dogs and bitches have an innate urge to procreate, we don't let them...they don't NEED to they just want to. I personally don't satisfy mine in other ways....

You get the drift though? JUst because something is inbuilt inthem...doesn't mean it can't be satisfied in other ways.

The difference with all of your examples and the hunting instinct is just that - it's an instinct. Human beings have bred it into the dogs, we've made them this way - it's soley what the dog lives for! Rolling in mud isn't an instinct, it's something that is unique to the dog, it's a desire. Eating faeces is part of a dogs make-up and generally a learned behaviour from the Dam, but it's not his sole purpose for living. It's a habit, a quirk. They do it because they want to, because they can, not because they need to. Hunting is not a desire, but a hard wired instinct.To deny them their reason for being in life (which us humans bred into them btw) is cruel, end of story.

To be happy, satisfied, whatever you want to call it, a working bred HPR needs to be allowed off lead to hunt.

To say you think you know every single dog's necessity to be off lead on Earth is ridiculous Ailsa! Sorry to be so frank.

Well said!!

Now, I really must go to bed, too. Dogsey has successfully distracted me all day. Again. Darn this forum.

Ha ha! I Bet you, me and Ailsa will still be here at 01.30!

this 'good run', it is referring to offlead runs only?

i only ask because kira very rarely gets offlead runs, i.e freerunning. Simply because there are very few safe places for me to let her off, to let her off i need somewhere fully fenced, with either no gaps or very small ones under the fences because she'll slip under them and fgood size fences or she'll jump them... you see my problem lol.

however, she does get a very good run in harness, which personally i think is more benefical to her than her running around willy nilly lol, she has to work her mind as well as her body, by listening to commands. it is also more physically draining having to pull me around on a scooter lol.

i also think its more benefical having lead walks through streets, where she has to pay attention, i take her to a lot of new places as she goes most places with me, like town, where ther is always new smells and shes constantly meeting new people, interacting with children etc.

i dont think dogs need a good offlead run, they may enjoy it but they dont need it. what they need is exercise which is stimulating for mind and body, interacting with people, new situations etc.

I also think that a lot of owners (no offence to anyone on here, just from experience of where i used to live) use offlead running as an excuse, they an drive to a field, let their dog off to do what they want, little to no recall, while they stand there and have a fag/chat/text or whatever, then put the dog back in the car and go home. very little work needed on their part.

I dont think kiras missing out on anything.

just my opinion

If you're working your dog to satisfy it's built in instincts then that's fine (eg what it was bred to do), but for me it still wouldn't be quite good enough (I don't think, still not sure!).

Also just my opinion.