I remember reading all about Beau when I first joined Dogsey. What a fantastic dog! How is he getting on Shona? He moved to a fab location didn't he?

Again, we will have to agree to disagree. In the scenario you have posted, I would say those pups are paying for the breeder's hobby ... therefore, I would still say the breeder is making a profit.

Ahh but do you know how to train a sheepdog, or will you need to buy an already trained dog?

i would pick it up quick i know i would you could give me few lessons

i have a dvd from a breeder that show ther dogs working id have a bash at that in the mud id love it

Hes good, thanks, still waiting on photos of him talked to Andrew not long ago as Dougie had hoped to see him he found out he was going to be working up that way.. so we got quite excited.. then he was told he was being sent to inverness instead never mind one day I hope to see him again.
I still miss him.

ETA: yes he moved to a great location, he lives with a lovely farmer and has loads of land to romp around on, he even has a private beach..

You can show dogs without being the owner, that would be a hobby...I plan to breed in the far future, and the only reason I would start going to shows is because I would be breeding. It's not a hobby I have now, but when you are a breeder, your main goal should be breeding to improve the breed...not just breeding to make a profit. Thus you would do all the training and go to all the shows so that you can prove that the dogs you are mating are excellent examples of their breed and are suitable matches for each other (cancelling out faults, and such). If they are not, then you would have to reconsider the match or reconsider breeding those dogs all together.

I am new to that world, so I am sure others can correct me if I am wrong, but that is my philosophy about breeding/showing. I have made a whole excel sheet on things that I will have to spend money on in order to breed (vs just having a pet) and unless my bitch is able to produce 12 pups every time, I don't see how I will make much of a profit...let alone if there is a complication. Between materials needed, vet visits, health screening, insurance, training, showing, finding a stud, advertising (if needed), and general care/cost of owning a bitch (as this, too, is an expense in itself).

That's the difference between a true Breeder and a backyard breeder. Find a byb that would do all of that for their dogs.

Those that have a passion for this do not make a profit...in the end, everything balances out if you are lucky.

my only advice would be.. If you plan to breed, try to begin showing well in advance rather than waiting untill your ready to breed, the knowlage you gain in advance could well mean the diff between an ok litter and a fab one

We're going round in circles and will just have to agree to disagree. I still see no profit in decent show breeders having a litter.None at all. I know a fair few and on have made a profit and laugh at the thought of it. They are constantly out of pocket.

My opinions on partly trained dogs being sold on are the same and won't change so the circular discussion is taking up time I just don't have to spare right now, so with all good wishes I'm leaving the debate as it's going nowhere and probably won't. I'm agreeing to disagree in the nicest possible way. x

Thats my goal next January...i have been volunteering at the local dog training facility...so the experienced breeders there are becoming my many mentors