I am not a fan of puppy farmers and I do agree to this to a point - but do you condem one animal for the greater good? Is that the way forward - ends justifying the means and all that?

I would have to take each animal as an individual. I no longer go into P@H due to the rodent farming, I hate the thought of leaving them there to thier fate and given 1/2 a chance I would bring them all home.

I also feel that, until it is properly regulated true puppy farmers will find a way of 'disposing' of excess stock and producing more regardless.

I think to compare rescues to puppyfarmers is quite frankly dispicable - its a good job very few if any think the same way as you do rescues might as well just give up if they did.

How is it the same Ramble the PF's get money from the pups they get nothing from rescues so how can you really compare rescue to puppyfarming?

I will again answer you as I did before - when you denied rescues were doing anything and that they had not been helped by the powers that be to start up. Its all very well to live in a fluffy bunny world but in the real world right now all that will happen to these dogs is a spade and they will be replaced anyway.

Can I ask - what are you doing about it?

http://www.puppywatch.org.uk/

right so puppywatch are lying when they say the welsh assembly subsidised these farms?

http://myweb.tiscali.co.uk/hopeuk/5yearson.htm

oh and another –

http://puppyalert.googlepages.com/puppyfarming

maybe this will help you understand – bombard the authorities with info regarding bad breeding and what happens – the authorities give them a breeding license!

this is an update – please read this bit

Within a very short period of time of being exposed by the BBC this puppy farm was issued with a dog breeders licence to allow them to trade legally. How can an unlicensed puppy farm looking as it does in this photo (by courtesy of the BBC) become a licensed dog breeding establishment (practically overnight) without any modifications undertaken to improve the welfare standards or conditions of premises? This is an agriculture building previously used for sheep, not a purpose built kennel suitable for accommodating domesticated dogs for long periods of time - a lifetime in fact.-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Carmarthenshire Carmarthenshire County Council licensed this dog breeding establishmnent.

There is no light, the dogs have no way to see out of their cell. As many as ten dogs live in this one small space, a hell hole. Yet it did not stop Carmarthenshire County Council issuing the owners a licence for dog breeding.
Last year it passed its licensing inspection, yet they are in serious breach of their licensing conditions.
Why are these inspections not followed up?
The Animal Welfare Act 2006, where has it been applied at these premises?
Someone cannot be acting in the best interests of the dogs
64 dogs plus on the premises and no staff.

I hope, but doubt, this will help you see what these rescues are up against and maybe now start helping instead of yet another slating.

See what I mean - the authorities dont want to know - yes I know its hard to believe but as I think CC said this is not an ideal world we live in.

This is a very difficult subject, {sorry this is prob slightly ot}

I often wonder, What makes a puppy farmer the first port of call for someone looking for a dog?

Is it lack of knowlage on the buyers part as to where to get a puppy?

Is it that puppys are far less expensive than many breeders charge?

Do many people feel breeders charge to much for some breeds?

I think the key to ending the misery these dogs go through is finding out why people go to them, then working on that,

This is an awful catch 22 situation, on the one hand by rescueing ex breeders you ARE helping the PFers and adding to the perpetuating the cycle.

On the other, yes these dogs will still be replaced regardless of how the ex breeders dispose of them. So its got to be better for them to be given the 2nd chance every dog deserves.

At the end of the day the PFers play on the fact that rescues will not be able to see a dog suffer of be killed (often in a not nice way ) and would take the dog in . . And they are right!

I think TBH if i were a recuse taking in these dogs i would also be quietly taking photos, weights and vet reports to document each dog and slowly build a file for each PFer. Bit two faced but i think the people on the front line are the best to gather evidence. I would try and find someone to listen ( Even if it turned out to be PETA!!) but i think Spot is right about the councils and authoritys not giving a dam . . .

Sorry I haven't read all the answers to Mini's post..but this IMO is a hard thing.

Puppy farming should IMO be wiped out made illegal. But it continues I'm afraid and although there are people who rescue the unwanted stock, if they didn't what would happen to them.
Would the puppy farmers call in a vet to humanely destroy them or would they be butchered/slaughtered in vile ways before desposing of them.

Reah ended up at a puppy farm, being rescued after a raid by the authorities/police involved etc., if someone hadn't of rescued and saved her....would she of been able to live the last nine years loved, kissed, cuddled, told how ''special she was''?????? OK I agree she did go to a home that made her cruelty life wose....but then I got her

I've seen dogs that have been rescued from these places, their eyes show fear, confussion, they don't know how to socialise, they are not house trained, they don't know what is expected of them, some have major health problems, matted, covered in thier own poo/urine, burnt skin from urine. But I have also seen a completely different dog 12 months down the road, thier horror story behind them.

I agree STAMP OUT puppy farming, but thank god that someone one is there to rescue unwanted stock.....I hate to think what thier fate would be left to the puppy farmer.

I really don't think a puppy farmer would be anyones first port of call when looking for a puppy . A lot of these pups are sold through a third party , often a reasonably respecteable breeder who jusrt happens to be selling a "litter for a friend ". Puppy farmers know all the tricks in the book for hiding the fact the puppies are from a puppy farm . I myself know people who have been tricked into believing these puppies are from a decent breeder .

In reply to this post I would say until puppy farms are stopped rescues should take every dog they can get their hands on from them .
I think these people who go and rescue the dogs should get a medal for not resorting to physical violence to these evil people

Mini I find the title of this thread very offensive – at best it implies that rescues are assisting in something to help the puppyfarmers not the dogs at worst it sounds like they hold the dog while the spade is used!


You expect your views to be respected while accusing rescues of helping out or being the same as puppyfarmers?



Again you imply that rescues are doing nothing – they are as has already been answered.

Do you really think that taking these dogs off the puppy farmers is the same as actually buying a dog from them – honestly you cannot see the difference? Yes rescues are motivated by compassion but they certain do not encourage the practice by paying for these dogs – Im not sure how you can accuse them of doing such a thing!

Rescues do go into these places yes – they also try to educate the farmers to improve the conditions and have done so. Yes they could go in a photo the evidence etc and try to get them inspected but until the authorities stop licensing and giving days warning of inspection then what help would that be?

I'm probably repeating what others have said but I whole-heartedly believe that these dogs have absolutely every right to be taken from their appalling situation. If this means that rescuers have to bite their tongue and be civil to the puppyfarmers, then so be it. It must be a very delicate situation to have to deal with and no doubt soul destroying having to leave dogs behind.

I said in the other thread that I don't believe taking the ex-stud/brood bitches makes any difference to the problem of puppy farming and I stick by that. They will be replaced one way or another and at least a few (however small the number) have the chance at a better life. Who can deny them that?

The ONLY way to close these places down is to stop the demand. With no demand there's no supply. And unfortunately (again I said in the other post so sorry for repeating myself) despite tv programmes exposing these places people still buy from them either cos they feel sorry, are taken in by the PF but mainly I think because they think they have the right to have a pup and we live in a very self centred society where we believe we can have whatever we want regardless.
That might sound harsh.....I don't know. It makes me so sad and frustrated. I sign these various petitions but I don't know what good they really do. What else can we do other than try to educate people, but then they've got to want to listen.

Sorry...rant over.

Buying, no. Removing animals that would otherwise be killed, yes. The only reason these people breed is for the money. If they can`t sell their animals they`ll stop.
However, we all know there is theory and practice. I know of at least 2 dogs - now in happy homes - who have been `bought` for a few pounds from junkies because the passer-by couldn`t bear to see the animal in such distress. The money has gone on drugs and no doubt the junkie is looking out for another dog. I know I`d have trouble walking away from an animal in distress, and I suspect most people here feel the same.
This foul practice needs to be controlled and licenced properly, and while Councils turn a blind eye, and the authorities find it too costly to enforce the legislation we have, I really don`t think the actions of a few dog-lovers in rescuing a few of the many thousands of abused animals will really perpetuate the industry. Prosecutions will - why not direct the pressure at the Police and RSPCA and local Councils?

I do see a difference between buying a pup from a puppy farmer and taking ex-breeding stock from them.

Puppy farmers are only breeding to make money, so if people stopped buying the pups, they wouldn't keep producing them.

However, as long as people are still buying the pups, the puppy farmers will continue to get rid of their ex-breeding stock, wherever/however they can.

It is a difficult situation though...their is no doubt that it makes it easier on the puppy farmers not to have to kill and get rid of the bodies of their ex-breeders.

I also wonder whether the authorities who grant them licences feel the breeders who do give their ex-breeders to rescues are 'responsible breeders' and whether there would be more of an up-roar if they were killing the dogs instead.

But I do seriously worry about the authorities, particularly in Wales since it seems (and I've only heard one side of the story so far) that they are happy to licence these establishments and don't think there is anything wrong in mass producing dogs.

So perhaps we should be starting with them. People living in Wales (or in any area where they know there are puppy farms) should be raising this with their local councillors and with their MPs. It should be raised in the Welsh Assembly.

If I was in the position to be taking on these ex-breeding stock and had to make the decision right now, I think I would take them in. However, I would record everything about each dog...vet reports, photographic evidence etc. and I would keep this all until I felt that someone in authority was going to take the matter seriously.

At that stage, I would release the information, even if that meant a breach of a promise to a puppy farmer and the likelihood that they would not trust me with their ex-breeding stock.