I havent much time to go tru the whole thread
Thankyou for your answers - I really do find them interesting - and I think as in most cases we all really do use similar methods with our dogs
When people say they are a CM follower positive trainers often think that means you are alpha rolling and pssting your dog all the time
and CM followers think we are bribing and begging and pleading with our fairly out of control dogs

My dogs have rules and boundries
- the only difference between what I do and what CM does is that I do not assume the dog knows what is wanted and punish anything that deviates from that - I praise the good and teach an alternative to the stuff I dont like

I exercise my dogs - but I also mentally exercise them, I strongly disagree with running dogs till they almost drop - all you are doing is making a realy fit dog - I could run my dogs for 10 hours a day and they would still be up for more - they are active breeds
But better that I give them a couple of hours, give them mental stimulation and jobs to do and teach them how to chill for the rest of the time


You dont need to be able to use a clicker to clicker train it is possible to use your voice - If I would have to have the clicker too close to the dogs ear then I just say 'YES' in a happy voice at the point I would click

and the most amazing thing is when you get to the point you are shaping your dog then you dont have to move at all - the dog offers behaviours and you just reward what you like in tiny steps towards the behaviour you want - its the ideal deckchair training

But if your wife is up for it then it sounds like something she might really enjoy

Yes, Temple Grandin. I have not read her, but have heard a lot about her books. I think she has done a lot for animals who are going to be slaughtered, she has helped in some cases so that their lot is less traumatic.

Do read the book I mentioned. I think you will find it most interesting, you may disagree with some of it, but then who agrees 100% with every thing in a book? It brings together the most recent research in dog psychology and discusses how we treat, train and live with dogs. What a fab subject!

It's by John Bradshaw - I expect you can order it. It's in the bestseller list in the US but it's under a different name.

best wishes
Wys
x

You are quite right. I was confused myself whilst writing this! I actually think something happens to the consciousness of a dog when it is around humans, as Sibevibe observed:

I think their consciousness goes from that of an animal (wild dog) to that of the equivalent of a 2 year old child (dog as a pet) . I take it you have heard about the collie in Germany/Austria? Who knows the name of over 200 objects and can even know that a sphere is a ball so even though it has been taught the word ball for say a tennis ball, if you ask it to get a ball, it will bring back say a football that it had never seen before.

I now realize that you do not need to dominate a dog as looking back, all we did with our naughty dog was; exercise, rules boundaries and limitations. You would not dominate a 2 year old but (I do not have kids) I am guessing the child has rules boundaries and limitations in that the parents say no to certain food and drink, say on the whole when it sleeps etc. So if other trainers stress rules boundaries and limitations, then maybe we do not need Cesar, but that is what WE took from him and that is what made all the difference.

As a side note, certain spiritual teachings say that; the soul incarnates thousands of times slowly evolving. The last step before graduation to incarnating in a human body is incarnating in the body of a pet! The Thai Budhists believe if you really messed up, you have to go back to the dog stage again!

Will do from now on

Thanks Wys, I have seen the film about Temple Grandin, very uplifting and moving. They did not mention it in the film, but according to my brother, in the book she says that if an animal has pink skin, because of the albino factor, they can be unstable. My elder dog has. We got on to the subject because I mentioned that I had noticed that here in Phuket, it was always the white or off white dogs that were aggressive and fought. Black not so much and brown not at all. That is why when we got our second dog from the shelter we chose a calm brown pup!

The Bangkaew is mostly white even though the original half jackal was black. It must be like the siberian foxes that were selectively bred for tameness. They went from black to now some being pure white!

I think you hit the nail on the head. I would now say the CM method is the lazy, macho way. Once a dog has rules boundaries and limitations then only use positive reinforcement techniques

Without wanting to go into too much detail (and off topic), white in dogs isn't caused by an albino factor. There are no recorded mutations on the albino (tyrosinase), aka C locus, in dogs. White is caused by spotting genes, or by a combination of genes that lighten the colour giving the appearance of white.

I think everyone will agree with you in respect of rules and boundaries . Whenever Milan is discussed, there seems to be some kind of belief that those who do not use physical aversives as part of their training do not believe in rules and boundaries being set, but this really is nonsense.

I tend to agree with Mech, the canine hierarchy is much the same as the human family hierarchy. Mum and dad guide the youngsters into adulthood whilst the youngsters still squabble amongst themselves

Dependent on who the owner was, I can think of far worse things than coming back as a pet dog

Depends whos pet!!

missed a lot on here but white dobes are considered albino