I wasn't talking about fault, Brierley, I was talking about misinterpretation of things people read and hear, and yes, sometimes even the things they see with their own eyes. The example you cited was a bit different, because in your case the woman apparently was missing a critical piece of information, i.e., DO NOT practice in the road. She evidently was a very "literal" learner, or just plain lacked common sense (lot of that going around).

Back to my example of puppy greeting behavior: Most of the people that train with me want their dogs to be good citizens and don't want them jumping on people. Most have tried doing something to curb the behavior based on things they have heard or read, and have only succeeded in either exacerbating the behavior, or causing their pups to become fearful and/or aggressive in greeting. The first problem is the owner's lack of knowledge, which causes them to misinterpret the jumping. I show them a different way of dealing with the problem, but only after I explain why pups jump. Once they understand the why of the behavior, they are better able to understand not only why their method of dealing with it failed/made it worse, but also how they could have prevented it in the first place, and why the method I use is more likely to succeed.

To my way of thinking, there is a mindset, i.e., thinking dog, that is essential to being a good trainer. I suspect that eons ago, when people lived with, used and interacted with animals on a daily basis, folks did a lot less anthropomorphizing than folks do today. Many people that I encounter these days seem to have to be taught how to honor and love creatures like dogs for what they are; they are animals, and they will continue to behave like animals, despite peoples' persistence in treating them like humans. Dogs can never be human, and it is my opinion, based on my experience, that it is totally unfair, destructive and demeaning to them to expect them to act like like us.

I believe you will find your answer in my reply to Lizzy, post #277, which is on the same page as and preceded this one of yours.

Apparently you are a victim of the same timing glitch Malpeki experienced in her post #258 on page 26. You might want to try the solution I suggested in post 265 on page 27 .

'tis a long thread - posts get missed. I'm pretty sure I've missed loads either by skim reading or reading very early or very late . It's so much easier and more productive to give a brief summary of a previous reply than refer back to the original

....
Back to my example of puppy greeting behavior: Most of the people that train with me want their dogs to be good citizens and don't want them jumping on people. Most have tried doing something to curb the behavior based on things they have heard or read, and have only succeeded in either exacerbating the behavior, or causing their pups to become fearful and/or aggressive in greeting. The first problem is the owner's lack of knowledge, which causes them to misinterpret the jumping. I show them a different way of dealing with the problem, but only after I explain why pups jump. Once they understand the why of the behavior, they are better able to understand not only why their method of dealing with it failed/made it worse, but also how they could have prevented it in the first place, and why the method I use is more likely to succeed.

I wasn't talking about fault, Brierley, I was talking about misinterpretation of things people read and hear, and yes, sometimes even the things they see with their own eyes. The example you cited was a bit different, because in your case the woman apparently was missing a critical piece of information, i.e., DO NOT practice in the road. She evidently was a very "literal" learner, or just plain lacked common sense (lot of that going around).

Back to my example of puppy greeting behavior: Most of the people that train with me want their dogs to be good citizens and don't want them jumping on people. Most have tried doing something to curb the behavior based on things they have heard or read, and have only succeeded in either exacerbating the behavior, or causing their pups to become fearful and/or aggressive in greeting. The first problem is the owner's lack of knowledge, which causes them to misinterpret the jumping. I show them a different way of dealing with the problem, but only after I explain why pups jump. Once they understand the why of the behavior, they are better able to understand not only why their method of dealing with it failed/made it worse, but also how they could have prevented it in the first place, and why the method I use is more likely to succeed.

To my way of thinking, there is a mindset, i.e., thinking dog, that is essential to being a good trainer. I suspect that eons ago, when people lived with, used and interacted with animals on a daily basis, folks did a lot less anthropomorphizing than folks do today. Many people that I encounter these days seem to have to be taught how to honor and love creatures like dogs for what they are; they are animals, and they will continue to behave like animals, despite peoples' persistence in treating them like humans. Dogs can never be human, and it is my opinion, based on my experience, that it is totally unfair, destructive and demeaning to them to expect them to act like like us.

We obviously have vastly different interpretations on many "words".......yet your use of the word enjoyment ...



Translates to the same meaning...one is happy doing what one is doing/ its pleasurable.

Insert the word "little" in front of "enjoyment", it suggests one is not having good time, and if one is NOT having a good time, then why is one partaking,

Along with the "pride in your achievments" that jumps out of your posts, its obvious you DO enjoy your hobby. hence my disbelief in your statement that youdont get pleasure /enjoyment out of your hobby.



Not at all, I am pro hunting, it has nothing to do with my opinion of you and your training methods

Personally yes I am anti hunting, but that does not stop me being friendly with some good dog trainers and behaviourists and long term owners who are pro hunting. One of my best friends took her flatcoat on a shoot and I didn't break the friendship over it, so, although I disagree with it as a sport I don't let it stop me being friends with someone who partakes in it, nor does it stop me talking over methods and experiences.

The only sentiment that is colouring my opinions is that I have been against shock collars for many years, never having seen or heard or spoken to anyone who has altered my mind. I've done a lot of research, watched a lot of vids, etc etc but I believe they are abusive to dogs overall and should be banned.

You've "sort of" answered my question but I haven't really found out why you use a shock collar for sport.

I can understand, although disagree, with people who use it for (as they imagine) saving a dog's life. But sport? It's not life or death, it's sport. It's a game, it's fun or there are motivations to do it.

Some will do anything to gain a win, to get "kudos", or to be the person who wins the money or carries home the cup.

I am trying to find out why you feel it is OK to use a shock collar for sport. I don't really see an answer in your posts yet.

You can just write a small paragraph, it does not have to be a lengthy post.

Wys
x

Nope, you still 'pray and hope'.

You said yourself, your dogs have a high pain threshold and that it's entirely possible your dogs could choose to ignore the collar

From this post, it seems you use a shock collar on your dog because you believe it is needed to proof the commands and also because you believe it is a life saver?

So would you say then that you would use one anyway on a dog, even if you were not partaking in a sport? Or would you feel you did not need a shock collar if you were not partaking in sport with your dogs?

Wys
x

...or causing their pups to become fearful and/or aggressive in greeting..

How would you then, teach a dog not to jump up? I'd probably use a clicker but some might put it on cue or teach a solid Sit.