Kazz while there are quite a few breeders about who breed to the older standard there is still hope as to the banning well that is up to us that care and fight for the breed and that means keeping cutting lose the money makers and the ones bringing the breed into disrepute and going on our own not only that we need to get proactive in this regard and not reactive

Gameness means completely different things to the ordinary dog owner and to the dog fighter

and one of these groups of people will never just stop ......

Hi Minty.

Yes I agree we should get pro-active. And I know their are breeders who breed good Staffords.

And you are right Lel, I agree the ordinary dog owner will never stop you and I being in that group.

Tom i know how good chinaman was but thats the problem with him he was a manbiter and his line made lots of cash thats why they were not culled

But some people say he wasn't really a man biter, and that it was a one off because he was very sick.

A bit off topic.......but chinaman was a cracking looking dog!

yes kazz this was badly handled it was rushed into and pushed through and the breed council has to take responsability here as far as we are concerned because to us the BC let the KC bully them into rushing into it without the clubs getting a chance to sort it out among themselves

I agree Minty they were bullied. And I also agree actually with the roatation of CC's (now I will quietly put my tin hat on and hide under the stairs)

No need for the tin hat the problem we have with the rotation is we are the only breed club here representing the KC in ireland and the only other set of cc here belongs to belfast dog society so we have only two sets of cc here so it makes it hard for us plus we have the IKC trying to take all the venues by offering green stars all over the place also it makes it hard for judges to get good experience .
But i still think the BC could have fought a lot harder like investigating how many ccs other breeds have that are less popular than staffords and things like that like as you know we withdrew from the BC but we are still prepared to donate money for health research and things like that were the good or the breed is concerned we have accepted the rotation and understand the reasons for it but there are still some clubs as you know looking to get it changed to suit themselves

ok i have a suggestion.... (please dont shout at me )

to preserve and protect our breed.... breed out gameness, if this is the one thing that keeps SBT's being associated with the DDA, then get rid of that trait, would it be so bad to have a soppy (towards other dogs) stafford? to enable the breed to continue? I know it would change the 'wrong' peoples attitudes towards them, they wouldnt want them for fighting anymore because the dog wouldnt want to do it, it is something that we all say is part of the SBT's character BUT we all train against it, we socialise our dogs so much that the trait is not seen anyway.
I am not saying this is the way to go, i am just making a suggestion, as i am getting extremely concerned that the breed i love could be outlawed

*off to hide

Gameness is the will to go on when everything has been done to halt you. It is one of the most treasured traits in man, as well as certain dog breeds. Emma I hear your opinion to which you are most certainly entitled, but a Stafford without Gameness is is just an other canine, I love the breed because they are Loyal, Dependable, and a breed apart, and it is there ability to to keep going when others would stop, that make them different. If they loose that then I feel we have lost the breed. This will never happen, to many care to much.