May I remind you of just one of your posts which confirms the statements from the site I copied the rules of dogfighting from.

Stan

sorry about the link eraze i didnt think about posting links to another board not being allowed ,just thought it was relivant to this topic .

stan, read my posts P R O P E R L Y instead of just qouting them to try and pick a fight

MY dogs are not snarling monsters because they are well trained and well socialised. NOt because they are fighting dogs.
They have never been used to fight and never would.

I was simply trying to point out that what some people equate with being game ie aggression and growling etc etc is not the same as the behaviour a game dog shows.

For someone whos supposed to be educated you really dont seem to listen to other peoples posts, read them through properly, or grasp their meaning

No problem Pete, it's a fairly recent rule.

Blimey!

I have just been and hit my head against the brick wall at the back of my house, It dont half hurt eh??? :smt021

wont be doing that again

should av gone to roxys padded cell cbt.less painfull

lol lol I have tried to get in but she wont let me lol

Gameness;
Is a word I would associate with as Olive said working terrier’s i.e?
You would not class a terrier that ran away a "game dog" going head first down a rat hole is not something a non game dog would do twice - I imagine.
Gameness;
Is also a word I associate with my breed of Stafford’s and now Irish Staffs - although the history of Irish Staffs is not as well documented (I don't think, although I stand to be corrected on that)
Being a SBT owner the word to me means - a dog who showed/shows courage - even in today’s enlightened times.

In the "old" days fighting dogs that were not game found themselves at the bottom of the canal in a sack with a brick for company. Because the average working man who owned a fighting dog - could not afford to keep a dog that would not fight.

The SBT was/is a man made breed, manufactured and fashioned by hard men from a hard time although the authentic story of his development is hidden. Due to the fact that no one bothered (as far as is known) to keep records about dogs in those days.
They bred and fashioned their dogs to suit particular sports or functions, but matters like pedigree, so important to us, were disregarded completely. This indifference to written pedigree and mating records persisted in the SBT even beyond the first quarter of the 20th century.
The way they believed to get a game dog was to mate a dog with a bitch, of proven courage - regardless of colour - height - weight of the dogs. But even the gamest dog would not be tolerated if he turned on humans - so the Stafford we know today was made.

When the SBT was accepted by the KC in 1935, few Stafford’s had an authentic family tree - but I would say all were "game" dogs otherwise they would not have survived. So even if we today don’t wish to think of our dogs as "game" we have to understand that the "gameness" is indeed the root of the primary ingredient to a GOOD Stafford i.e. I quote;
Characteristics " From past history of the SBT the modern dog draws his character of indomitable courage, high intelligence and tenacity. This coupled with his affection for his friends, and children in particular, his off-duty quietness, and trustworthy stability makes him the foremost all-purpose dog."

Gameness is a word and that is interwoven with SBT history and I for one would not want a dog that did not show courage - would you?

And by courage I do not mean a screaming banshee on the end of a lead, but a dog who is confident and self assured. I CHOOSE A STAFFORD. And Stafford should be GAME.
All my Staffs have been expected to move at ease around other dogs of various breeds/ages/sexes, without aggression. And have all been 200% trustworthy around people. My present two the older Sal is a registered PAT dog and has her KCGC Bronze and Silver, working towards Gold and does agility. The pup will be going along the same route - with time - with time.

Karen

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Yes kazz this is what i have been told and led to believe and the same has always been said about APBT but then you look deeper and get these quotes about APBT
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A lot of dog men say, "We do not tolerate man biters." But this is a fallacy, since at least one great game dog, Chinaman, is a known man biter, and was not culled. Instead he has been used at stud extensively. And he is only one of several
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However, not all old-timers culled man-biters. Some famous people-aggressive dogs were bred a long time ago because they were devastating in the pit. Their genes still run in the blood of the most popular gamebred bloodlines.

Today, not only will some dogmen knowingly breed a man-biter if they think it will provide them with pit champions, but since they often have several APBTs living on chains in their yard, they don't always know what temperament these dogs will have in real pet situations
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Much as i hate to say it about a breed i love whos to say it didnt happen in staffords to and remember a lot of the so called irish staffs have APBT blood in them

Hi Minty.
You have a point I was not aware of but sadly I am not surprised by your point. Which saddens me more than I can say regarding APBT as I like the dogs.

The thing is a lot of the old Staffords was they did not live in chains in yards but in the homes of the men who fought them, often a family only had one dog. They were often I am told "from the horses mouth" fed better than the family themselves. Often if fortunes were good the dogs were given rew shin beef while the family ate offal. These dogs were the nursemaids of children and I don't believe a dog who turned on his owner back then would have been considered an asset - more a liability to be disposed of. Biting the human hand regardless of the cirumstances was looked upon as a sin punishable only by death to the dog.

Karen