A quick result has positive benifits for the dog, the only point of taking longer is to make more money for the trainer (omg I need to convert now!), even then a lot of times the longer road is less effective.
As many people on here prove.

Adam

there is NO justification for using pain to train whilst other VERY effective methods are there for the taking.

I don't use pain to train. This is the equivilant of me saying you use starvation to train.

Adam

No Adam, positive reinforcement has positive benefits for the dog and the point of taking longer is to ensure that the training is conditioned, generalised & performed by a happy& willing dog

And IMO no reputable trainer would take any longer ( probably far less time) to show an owner what to do by way of pos R, than a salesman for sadistic torture devices would take to demonstrate their wares! So no, there's no profit making motive there ~ unlike salesmen of torture devices who get more money, the more they sell, regardless of the harm to the poor dogs that they will be responsible for

Yes you do---thats why you won't have it done to you.

rune

how absurd

electric shocks = pain

metal spikes pressed on skin = pain

if it didnt hurt it wouldnt work

...u really can be a twonk cant u ,so reward trained dogs dont have meals no?

so now according to Adam Christmas is cruel to kids pmsl

Pathetic - doesn't warrant further comment than that.

If the video showing Jacca is representative Adam, you are not using them correctly.

Quick to apply the aversive, so very, very slow to rummage around and actually give him, in that case, a food reward.

Find a decent trainer in your area who uses predominantly rewards during training then simply watch and learn

Have just used a dinner fork n applied with pressure into the side of my neck, was most uncomfortable feeling n that's with me being in control of what was doing(not same as prong collar but similar?).