Speaking of Rod Roberts, I drove by the guy yesterday, lol! Funnily enough that was In Newstead Village, didnt realise he lived there, thats where I saw him training WT dogs one day and spoke to him.

Anyway, thats my claim to fame over with...

If Louie is comfortable with the tug toy and delivers to hand, then continue to use this instead of a dummy and perfect the training with that. Once he understands then bring in something else.

Flynn will ponce around with a slipper in his mouth all day and will sit and hold it, come up onto my lap and hold it and he's very comfortable with the darn thing in his cakehole. As SB said, it's probably because i've never put pressure on him to bring me a slipper.
I only use dummies for training, they never get played with and the other dogs never get to have them so Flynn realises that dummies mean training and he's to do certain things. However, considering the pressure thing, the fact that I dont use dummies as play things may be my downfall in retrospect.

My claim to fame is that I was taught to sail by Paul Goodison's (Olympic gold medalist) Dad - I also helped walk and train basic's with their Springer, Ben.

I don't know if you read my edit Leanne..

Well I do not allow my dogs free access to toys at all; they all belong to me and to play with them they have to play with me.l

They are allowed non interactive toys eg those they can enjoy by themselves such as stuffed kongs, tug a jug treat dispenser and stagbars and bones, but NO toys.

ALL training should be fun.

Two rules to dog training:

Make it simple for the dog to understand
Provide sufficient reward

Training and fun are not mutually exclusive, if they are, it has all gone horribly wrong.................

That is the beauty of clicker training, the dog cannot WAIT to retrieve that item to hand because THAT is when it gets (insert relevant fix for your dog)!

My dogs dont have free access to toys, they are all kept in a box in the shed outside and I find that if a toy is left lying around, it's generally forgotten about but as soon as I make an appearance, the dogs are scrabbling to find the toy.

My problem with Flynn is that too much fun for him equals OTT behaviour. If I start getting excited and acting a bit silly to try and make light of the training then he cant control his excitement and thats when the barking sets in, the jumping, the baiting etc. He's a dog that absolutely needs calm, quite handling. So, my question would be how do I therefore make things fun and rewarding whilst still keeping him at a manageable level? I use a tennis ball for reward and when he knows i've got that he's perfection personified! Cant take a tennis ball with me on a shootover day!

Sorry to hijack the thread Aimee!

Well speaking as an owner of an OTT dog...........

There is no need to act excited or act a bit silly with this type of dog, in fact it is contra indicated. Calmness is the key.

As for not being able to take a tennis ball onto a shotover day, well I cannot take food or a toy onto the Working Trials Field or the Schutzhund Field or any other sport.

However, by the time I have got to the stage of competing the dog has been trained using operant conditioning and thus variable rewards; has learned to increase the duration of work before getting reinforced (look at Ch C Obedience they sometimes have to do 10 mins plus of heelwork totally focused and with no reward)!

The dog always knows that at some point the (insert relevant reward) will appear.

I have also classically conditioned my dog to see the competition field as a source of great reinforcement.

Does that help?

Leanne - Hijack all you like - what you're having trouble with and the advice you get may help me if I ever have that trouble..

SB - Louie has toys around the house but rarely plays with them unless we initiate it. He prefers to steal toilet roll tubes and chew them up instead...

He does however pick them up to greet us if one is near, he picked it up from Sadie - who will bring remotes and pegs if you have left her for a while and she's excited to see you back.

Well just had an email from RR -

I have thanked him and asked him if there is anyone he has in mind..

Have you looked here, not sure what the standard of any trainers in your area would be though.

http://www.thegundogclub.co.uk/

I have had a look on there - let me see if I can find something else, I didn't think I found anyone last time though..

Nope - not one I can attend regularly without spending huge amounts on travel and I don't think that I could afford the price of the workshops for Spaniels and retrievers

I'll keep looking through though...

Well that's usefull...