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Jackie
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04-08-2009, 08:39 AM
God, yes, I remember that one too

Poor dog , with his tail tied up
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Trouble
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04-08-2009, 08:41 AM
Treadmills - When I badly injured my leg and walking outside was virtually impossible as the pain was so intense. I could manage to walk on my treadmill because the surface is cushioned and the impact is lessened. I gradually managed to spend longer and managed to rehabilitate my leg far quicker than would have been possible without it. So even unfit dogs should be able to manage without keeling over.
I don't think he sees it as a substitute for walking though, He states quite clearly it's not a substitute, the treadmill should not be the only walking the dog does it needs to walk with you. It's just another tool.
He does also write at length about finding ways to have fun with your dog, finding things to do that fulfill your dog.
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Jackie
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04-08-2009, 08:46 AM
Originally Posted by Trouble View Post
Treadmills - When I badly injured my leg and walking outside was virtually impossible as the pain was so intense. I could manage to walk on my treadmill because the surface is cushioned and the impact is lessened. I gradually managed to spend longer and managed to rehabilitate my leg far quicker than would have been possible without it. So even unfit dogs should be able to manage without keeling over.
I don't think he sees it as a substitute for walking though, He states quite clearly it's not a substitute, the treadmill should not be the only walking the dog does it needs to walk with you. It's just another tool.
He does also write at length about finding ways to have fun with your dog, finding things to do that fulfill your dog.

There is a big difference between you using a tread mill and someone putting a dog on one.


You , can judge your pace..You know when you are tired, You know if it is becoming to stressful ......and YOU can adjust the speed and time/

The dog cant, and when in the hands of someone who obviously cant read a dogs body language........how is he going to know all the above .......not until the dog is exhausted ..as is seem on many an occasion
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Trouble
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04-08-2009, 08:56 AM
Originally Posted by Jackbox View Post
There is a big difference between you using a tread mill and someone putting a dog on one.


You , can judge your pace..You know when you are tired, You know if it is becoming to stressful ......and YOU can adjust the speed and time/

The dog cant, and when in the hands of someone who obviously cant read a dogs body language........how is he going to know all the above .......not until the dog is exhausted ..as is seem on many an occasion
Of course there is, I can operate the buttons as you say and set the speed as can any responsible owner with a dog. Treadmills also have a safety stop too which is a clip designed to attach to yourself and should you fall/ faint or whatever stops the treadmill without you needing to do anything. It can just as easily be attached to the dogs collar/ lead whatever. Frankie my terrier is the only one of mine to use a treadmill, it's his choice not mine, he jumps on it and trots along for as long as he wants when we've finished using it, he isn't attached and hops off again when he's had enough.
Anyone who uses a treadmill will know how to use it properly for themselves and if they care about their dog they'll exercise caution when using it for their dog. You can't dumb everything down for every moron on the planet. He does say quite clearly to exercise caution.
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Jackie
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04-08-2009, 09:06 AM
Originally Posted by Trouble View Post
Of course there is, I can operate the buttons as you say and set the speed as can any responsible owner with a dog. Treadmills also have a safety stop too which is a clip designed to attach to yourself and should you fall/ faint or whatever stops the treadmill without you needing to do anything. It can just as easily be attached to the dogs collar/ lead whatever. Frankie my terrier is the only one of mine to use a treadmill, it's his choice not mine, he jumps on it and trots along for as long as he wants when we've finished using it, he isn't attached and hops off again when he's had enough.
Anyone who uses a treadmill will know how to use it properly for themselves and if they care about their dog they'll exercise caution when using it for their dog. You can't dumb everything down for every moron on the planet. He does say quite clearly to exercise caution.
Yes I know, I have one..

Have you ever seen CM clip the safety clip to any of the dogs........?????????
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04-08-2009, 09:12 AM
Originally Posted by Gnasher View Post
I choose to stick with CM though because it is all hands free - I didn't and don't need to have to remember any gadgets or rewards!
Since when are CM's methods 'hands free'? I'm pretty certain I've seen him holding dogs down. Your comment about gadgets and rewards shows you have little understanding of these methods of training.

Originally Posted by lilypup View Post
i continue to watch dw with an open mind and today i watched 2 of his shows. he dealt with adolescent rotties and over indulgent owners. much of what he said made total sense. to have the dogs in a calm state around children and to recognise the breeds individual needs.
And there in lies the problem, the words out of his mouth do not in any way shape or form match his actions and it is what people SEE that they will act on not what they hear as humans are primarily geared up for sight stimulus first.

Originally Posted by JuniorDaddy View Post
This is too true but violence towards children or animals is not & has never been (& I hope never will be) acceptable to anybody.
Can you not see any violence in the methods he uses? Do you think choking a dog until it turns blue is not a violent method?

Originally Posted by JuniorDaddy View Post
But Steven, they are not ineffective. There are many people, myself included, who will tell you he has worked for us. Am I then not PROOF that they are effective?
At the sake of repeating again no-one says they don't work but they work for the wrong reasons. That is suppressing a dogs natural way of communicating and shutting it down so it only does what you want. That kind of 'training' does not allow for a happy dog as the dog is no longer allowed to express it's emotions through body language.

Originally Posted by Ramble View Post
I sae the end of a most bizarre episode last night with a Viszla who was scared when out in town. CM rollerskated him around...then when the dog's tail was still between his legs...guess what he did??? He held it up to make the dog feel proud. Deciding that was a good course of action to help this dog he tied the dogs tail to the handle end of the lead with it still attached to the collar...and walked the dog holding the lead in the middle...so the dog would feel more confident... Honestly....totally bizarre......poor dog...talk about removing a dogs way of expressing itself...
That is staggering and just reinforces in my mind that CM knows nothing about dog behaviour other than to force it to do what you want at any cost to the dog. Disgusting.
Becky
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Gnasher
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04-08-2009, 09:17 AM
Originally Posted by rune View Post
how would you reward a dog who didn't want you to touch it? they do exist. i have had rescues who couldn't care less about people.

i have had collies and gsd's who were motivated with a fuss, but much more motivated with a pat and a toy or titbit.

rune
I had one of them - Hal ! he hated being touched, caressed or patted. He didn't "care" about people - he did care about his own "pack", but he would never lower himself to admit to it. His reward was the same as Tai's - told he was a good boy, which didn't impress him at all, or if possible, a good walk, which did.
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Trouble
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04-08-2009, 09:19 AM
Originally Posted by Jackbox View Post
Yes I know, I have one..

Have you ever seen CM clip the safety clip to any of the dogs........?????????
I don't watch the programs anymore, I haven't seen one in ages, I did watch the first 2 series but that was years ago, Syd was a pup and he's 4 now and they just seem to be repeated over and over.
I personally would never leave a dog unattended on a treadmill, end of story. When he puts a dog on a treadmill he's there to get it used to walking on it, because it is a freaky sensation at first, so would it be essential to attach the emergency stop? I think not, as long as you're paying close attention. However the point raised was that if I use it myself I can judge the speed, pace, etc. I agree I can. I can also judge that for my dog if I'm paying attention, which is what I should be doing if I put him on a treadmill. Therefore the point raised previously about running the dogs into oblivion shouldn't arise. it comes down to owner responsibility in the end. If you care about your dog then take care while exercising whether that be out and about or on the treadmill.
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Gnasher
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04-08-2009, 09:27 AM
Originally Posted by mishflynn View Post
So you rewarded your dog with Play, that is positve reinforcement, that is NOT CM, CM dosent praise, remeber the BC jumping up for the lead & when he did weell His owner stroked his head, & CM told her off. You really arent "that" CM!!!!
Only because there was time to do so. Otherwise he would have had to make do with his pat and told he was a good boy.

Jumping up for the lead? If he was jumping up at his owner in excitement or impatience, keen for the off, then CM was correct to tell the owner off! I don't recall the episode. Tai used to do this, and was quickly reprimanded. He now sits patiently, with his tail sweeping the ground and stomping slightly with his front paws puffing and panting like an express train trying desperately to remain calm and sitting. He lets out these little squeaky half bark, half yaps, but he remains seated.
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Jackie
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04-08-2009, 09:30 AM
Originally Posted by Trouble View Post
I don't watch the programs anymore, I haven't seen one in ages, I did watch the first 2 series but that was years ago, Syd was a pup and he's 4 now and they just seem to be repeated over and over.
I personally would never leave a dog unattended on a treadmill, end of story. When he puts a dog on a treadmill he's there to get it used to walking on it, because it is a freaky sensation at first, so would it be essential to attach the emergency stop? I think not, as long as you're paying close attention. However the point raised was that if I use it myself I can judge the speed, pace, etc. I agree I can. I can also judge that for my dog if I'm paying attention, which is what I should be doing if I put him on a treadmill. Therefore the point raised previously about running the dogs into oblivion shouldn't arise. it comes down to owner responsibility in the end. If you care about your dog then take care while exercising whether that be out and about or on the treadmill.
Did you not see the episode where he was dealing with a bulldog, that never got walked because it chased skateboards...

His answer was to get his skateboard out, and run that dog almost into oblivion to tire him out.

Tell me, what sort of person would do such a thing to a totally unfit dog, .. the dog was on his knees at the end..

Is that being a responsible knowledgeable trainer
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