Hi TangoCharlie
thankyou for advice re JF and other courses. I am looking into them career wise but time is not really on my side(am no spring chicken ) and need to invest wisely, that's why I thought a foundation degree might be the best way to go. There is another online course that looks quite promising and is accredited but would really like something with 'hands on' tuition as well if possible.

Most courses are accredited. It dent mean much these days unfortunatly. That's why I liked the look of the BB course. Behaviour and 'hands-on', precisely what makes a good canine trainer or behaviourist.

One of my training team who is currently instructing for me, is doing this course I think. I will check to make sure it is the same course and ask for her comments.

If it is this course, then I can comment too.....Its certainly given her some direction and she has done some interesting things, like observe me and some of the other trainers and the dogs in training, and document her findings, do some interesting training stuff with her own dog, and so some interesting assignments.

HOWEVER, having seen her assignments and been involved in some of her other course tasks, I have had my view reenforced that whilst theoretical training is a usefull start, it is very far from reality indeed! Some of the assignements ask her to do "impossible things" like assess a dog aggressive dog asking only five questions! This is not the real world. As acedemic studies always do, they also award "points" for her relating her assignements to their recommended reading.....When it came to the dog aggression assignment, both she and I, knew that how we would actually approach and or resolve the case in question, was not documented in any text book! Our approach is utterly unique and the books she has been asked to read are, in my view, rather outdated in their approach at times!


I have trained a lot of instructors and handlers and my view remains the same, there really is no substitute for experience.

Hope my comments are of some help. Whatever you decide I wish you all the very best of luck!

I will ask her if this is the same course and report back...

What is it that you want to achieve? What is it that you want to do ultimately?

Personally, I think that one of the best ways to learn about dogs is to regularly attend and watch a GOOD dog training class. And also regularly attend and watch a bunch of dogs, socialising on a park.

Where do you live - I may know of someone who can help you?

Thaks for your replies. I'm
In Essex.

Is it the course in question? If not you have just wasted a post.

I already work at two clubs/schools. One competitive based and one more fun and enjoyable. Also I work at a rescue kennel.
Ultimately, I want to be a behaviourist. You can't really be recognised as a behaviourist with experience alone. Ask the APBC.

Only experience, can dictate, what experience dictates. And it seems my experience, is quite different, to yours!

I don't need to ask the APBC. My experience dictates, that I have far more behaviour enquiries than I have time, to deal with, purely on recommendation. And none via the APBC.

Well its great that you are getting the dog training experience and rescue kennel stuff too! Great! Well done you.

Thanks for the suggestion of asking the APBC, but actually, what I need is not to ask the APBC, but more instructors, I only have 8. And behaviourists, I only have 4. Or at least we have each other, for that is how we work. I do however realise, that not everyone, works well in a group.

Personally, I don't think that any post is wasted. . Your's certainly wasn't!

I wish you well in your ambition. I wish everyone well in their ambition, for that is what I do. And along the way, we actually help those that the universe has the grace to help. That is what we do.

And yes, it was the course in question. Night night. x

It's developing into an interesting debate.
Experience vs theory.
I would guess the course was helping your trainer fine-tune her consultation skills. Asking five good, open questions and getting as much info back as possible. After all, it's often the handler that sparks an aggressive dog, so to find out things like diet, exercise and history is crucial.

Regarding behaviourists. There is an elderly woman in my village who has been training dogs for forty years. She takes on behaviour cases but she is blind to current research and knowledge on how dogs learn. Sure, she can get you to stick out a leg and get a straight present but as to why the dog barks throughtbthe class, she hasn't a clue (although she has a water spray). Experience but zero knowledge.
I think you need both and this three year course provides both IMO.

Are your behaviourists qualified at all?

Yes fascinating debate!

It depends what you mean as qualified, but if you mean do we have letters after our names, then no, we don't.

Anyone can call themselves a trainer or behaviourists as we all know. Anyone can be good or bad at either thing, whether they are "qualified" or not.

When you look at the process followed by any accreditation or qualification process, all that it is doing basically is forcing a particular reading route or method set. When I looked at qualifications many years ago when I started teaching, as I have many times since, I decided that there did not appear to be a course out there that had such a diverse understanding or approach as I had already developed. Personally, me and most of my team have chosen the route of picking and chosing training courses along our way via people that we feel may have knowledge we don't and in areas of new understanding as they apppear.

The biggest issue I have with all of the training acccreditation processes, though is this. That they are dog behaviour or training based. . The problem I see with this is that nearly every behaviour or training client I have has a people training issue, not a dog training issue!
It is understanding a persons needs, understanding and developing their skills and motivating them to change, that is the secret to successfull modification or development. From what I have seen, there are few courses or approaches in this country that consider that enough.

It doesn't matter how much a person might have read, or understood the current thinking on dog behaviour, if they fail to see that many owners simply can not, will not, or don't want to change, unless a real pshycological shift takes place, a shift which has to be driven by the dog behaviourist, then no one will benefit. When a course comes along which approaches such things with a more balanced understanding and approach or more effectively, I for one, will be on it!

I have trained with, alongside or taught several dozen trainers, some of whom are recognised as the "top" people in their sphere, but I have yet to see any single individual come close to having an approach or method which is wholly worth adopting! I therefore can only conclude that there isn't one. Not from one person. Not from one course.

I do not think that acedemic studies are pointless, far from it, but I do think that they can give a scewed perception of just how "real" academic studies are. For instance, my team all went on a week long course with a rather famous trainer last year. That course had on it a number of people who had come from other non dog training backgrounds and they thought the course was good, some even thought it excellent. Without exception my team thought it very very poor indeed. The people with less experience had failed to recognise the fundamental weaknesses in the course because of their lack of experience. Some of them even intended to set up as behaviourists after the course with only that learning to go on. Very sad and in my view very very dangerous.

It is not possible in my view to gain adequate experience solely from a course, any course, currently provided in the UK. It is possible to gain a foundation of knowledge, which is great, but nothing more.

Hi Lotsadogs
thankyou for reply, I would really like to achieve having a much deeper knowledge and understanding of dog/human behaviours and relationships(don't know better way to put it). Not sure what I want to do ultimately with that knowledge yet, but will need it and experience in order to hopefully make some sort of a career involving dogs and owners whatever that may be. I have worked in kennels before, looked after other peoples dogs and walk with my dog in the local park every day (where it seems a lot of folk go to walk round talking, not paying their dogs much attention at all am afraid ) I live in Yorkshire and will look for a training class although don't know of any nearby.

Well we are in the Midlands. I have a friend whose experince I admire, up your way Julie Pett, look up Pett behaviour, she may be a good starting point. If we can help in any way we will. If you ever want to take a holiday near us and come along to any of our events and see how it all works for us, then you are welcome. Just get in touch.

We often have people come spend time with us before setting up on their own. I have had people shadow me for a while and they have found much benefit in it.

I find a lot of what I know from the animals I live and work with, just by observing. You say the people on the park take little notice of their dogs, but much can be learnt from this... Why do the dogs stick with them at all? Which dogs recall and which don't and why? What is it in the owners body language that shows a calm relaxed attitude or a stressed hassled one? And what is the effect of this on their dogs? How do the dogs interact? Which dogs are more or less assertive and why? What breed, size,and crucially age are they? What avoidance, interaction, play or aggressing behaviours do they use and WHY?

I cant look at any situation without asking myself WHY? It is a fascinating world in which we live and every moment offers a learning experience as long as one is open to it.

Let me know if I can help in any way. One thing that may be a good starting point for you is my ownership and pre ownership education evening. The way I approach education is shown on the video clip, taken from the talk, which is on my website under the video section. I have a lot of trainers and behaviour people come to watch this talk. You may find it interesting. it helps people look at things in a "different" way. Let me know if I can help. And good luck in your ambition, its fabulous to have ambition!
www.cadelac.co.uk