I make her sit & wait then she tucks in. I noticed this morning she was stopping & looking at me - wondered if she was waiting for me to drop something in or approach. I didnt - don't want to be too predictable.

Hi Suzie it is very confusing I must agree, there is so much conflicting advice out there, but I think you have had some very good advice here from people about taking things slowly and building trust.
Joedee says...
I agree with Joedee and those who say it is important that you are able to retrieve an object from a dog when necessary and a number of people have explained how to do this using the swap/exchange for a higher value treat method. This is not the same as interfering with a new puppy when it is eating and doing this should be thought about carefully in case you create problems where none exist.

I think if you look at the situation logically you get a clearer picture .
Lets say you are quite young and removed to a foreign country where no one speaks your language. You are afraid of your new surrounding and all the strange new sights and sounds. You have also been ill, are frequently hungry and not sure where your food is coming from.
You are given food by someone you don't know or trust and you hungrily start to eat it. You may have had to share your food previously so have learnt from experience to eat it quickly to make sure you get your share. Then the person who gave you the food starts to put a hand in it and you are not sure if they are going to take it away. Your try to tell them in your own language that you would prefer them not to do this but that makes matters worse because they look angry and even take your food away. They also touch you and this makes you feel more afraid.
Is this going to help you to learn to trust the person who gave you the food, are you more or less likely to eat the food quickly and to try to guard it.

Now a different scenario, instead of touching your food the person puts it down and lets you eat in peace. Not only that but sometimes when you are eating they walk past and leave you a chocolate. There is never any reason to guard your food, no one is going to take it away. Not only that but you quickly learn when people come near your bowl this it may lead to a special treat.

As your confidence grows you learn to trust the person, you also learn to swap your possessions and to give them to the person you trust and eventually other humans too.

Years ago someone bought a Cocker Puppy to us, they had been told they should 'show it who was boss' and take its food away. When the Cocker growled they hit it with a newspaper so it tried to bite them. Eventually things got so bad they had to put the food down and leave the room because it started to fly at them. They knew we bred Cockers so came to ask our advice. We said we would have a go at working with the puppy, it came to stay and we eventually managed to teach it that it was OK to trust humans around food.

It's hard to tell, my gsd would pause and look at me, but he was never food aggressive, if he had food in his mouth I could tell him to spit it out and he would, he was one in a million. I think you should take snippets of advice from everyone and use and stick with what works for you and Tilly, all dogs are different just like us humans. You seem so dedicated I am sure you can resolve this, but like everything, it just takes time and patience. Is she aggressive towards you under any other circumstances, what breed is she may I ask? Good luck with her, luckily she is still so young and still learning. Best wishes, Caroline x

That's all very good Mini, excellent in fact, but, I knew a guy who had a gsd, and we had to feed it one night coz his parents were out and as I put the food down for him, of course, I went to stroke him gentle, and the guy yelled out at me "oh no, don't ever touch him when he's got food, he'll bite you" Err why?? Same with a biscuit, If you went to give him a biscuit, you were not allowed to even break it in half and give him a bit at a time (a big digestive say), or he'd have your hand off! So you'd hold out the whole thing and he'd just snatch it from you! Now to me, this all stems because it's HIS food and you're not allowed anywhere near it, and I could never allow any dog of mine to be like that. If given a treat, they have always taken it so very gently, because quite honestly, I'm giving it to them, it's my food until it's in there mouth isn't it?! It is in this house I would never condone removing a bowl of food from any dog that you have given it of course, that's ridiculous, but, I would like to know that at any time I had to remove it, add more, put my hand in it etc. etc. etc. then I would have no qualms about doing so, rather than getting my hand bitten off! I suppose it's different with dogs like I've had, whereby, you just have to teach them some house rules, (then again, that should apply to any dog shouldn't it?) and as I said previously, there's always that great big chunky wedge that they manage to get off a big marrow bone, and I'd like to know I could stop them choking on it if I had to, by just asking for it back, and the only way you're going to do that, is to stop your dog being possessive over it's food. It doesn't matter whether the dog has been taught to "drop" something or not, in the dog's head, that is HIS food and if he's possessive over a bowl of food, then he's going to be possessive over anything else that's edible and potentially dangerous that's in his mouth, and personally, I'd like to rest assured I could take it out if I wanted, without having to resort to manhandling of any kind.

Hi Helena I would guess the dog you mention had learnt to become wary around food and that the problem could have been prevented with correct handling.

I agree with much of what you say , but I think we also need to consider individual circumstances and act upon them.
If we look at Tilly for instance and take into account the things Suzie has told us about her including this point..
..I already know Suzie has only had Tilly, an RSPCA rescue puppy for a very short time and that the puppy has been ill. The above statement says to me that there is already a problem regarding Tilly and her food.
I don't know her full history, maybe she has been underfed or fed with her littemates/other dogs around in the rescue kennel and felt the need to defend her food, so I would tread carefully to teach Tilly I provided her food/I didn't want her food/she had nothing to fear from my (or anone else) being around when she was eating. I would not rush to teach her this because things are already new and strange for her and I would not want to create other problems, so I would teach her things gradually while at the same time gaining her trust.
I would also be teaching her (and this is separate from her actual meal time ) to swap one possession for another.

I think Suzie has had quite a hectic time with her new puppy and has done her best to deal with the problems which have arisen. It is difficult to know what to do for the best when you read conflicting advice on many issues, I would say read as much as you can then decide which seems the most sensible course of action .

Your puppy Helena like mine probably had a completely different start in life from Tilly and wasn't wary around food to begin with , so teaching it food/giving/ manners is so much easier for us .

Oh my apologies then Suzie, I didn't realise your Tilly might have had a bad start when very young, it really does make all the difference when you CAN start off right with them. As Mini has said, you really are going to have to take things very calmly and very slowly with Tilly then, bearing in mind you just don't know what happened before with her around her food do you. I really wouldn't like to make any suggestions now then, you'll just have to stay as very patient as you already have, and try to overcome it, which quite honestly, might even just happen on it's own in time when she gets to know that her food is always there at regular intevals, nobody is going to take it away or disturb her eating it, let's hope so anyway. I honestly thought this was a little puppy you had had from the very start, I didn't realise the circumstances you got her when the damage was already done, but rest assured, you will get her over this, just be patient and kind and do as Mini suggests, everytime you go past her eating talk to her gently, or sit as near as you can just to give her some reassurance, it all helps. Good luck, you'll be telling us how good she is in a month or so you just wait and see!

No probs & thanks for your input Helena. I have no idea what situation she was in other than she was at the rescue centre around 10 days before we could bring her home. Before that her litter was brought over from Ireland.
We've had her 3 weeks & she was poorly the first week - so yes lots of trauma. Other than this issue she's a lovely puppy.

Hi Helena because I had already read about Tilly in a number of other threads I think I was more aware of her situation than yourself .

Tilly growls like mad & gobbles up her food too fast if you try to touch

So taking into account the little we know about Tilly's history and the above statement indicating there may be an existing problem with food , I can say roughly what I would have done under the circumstances. I can't say exactly what I would have done because this would have depend on Tilly's reactions to each step.

I would have started by putting down an empty food bowl/asking Tilly to sit (if she was able to) / adding her food then walking away and ignoring her. This says I am providing the food but I am not interested in it. I would do this for a number of days
Next I would divide the food into two bowls put one down in one place and one a short distance away then again walk away. This says I am providing the food, it may not all arrive at once or in one place but thats ok because it is safe, you can eat it when you are ready, no one will touch it. I would do this for a number of days and monitor the reaction.

After this I would move on to putting the food down and throwing a small treat to Tilly from a distance while she eats, just casually not making a big thing about it. I would gradually get nearer to her each time until I could drop the treat in the bowl.

Hopefully by this time Tilly would be starting to trust me in our day to day activities and around food. Gradually over time I would teach her to leave by swapping, and also using the show a low value treat between my fingers and reward with a higher value treat for leaving.

I appreciate some people would do things differently and that is their choice, but I always try to teach things without causing stress or fear which in themselves can cause other problems.

Now regarding Tilly I would tread with care taking into account the things others have said including Wysiwyg's advice that more professional help may be needed because Tilly has become more aggressive around food.

But that might not be a bad thing, if she expects you to drop something nice in the bowl then she will start to learn to like you approaching!

Don't worry about being predictable - it's when your dog can't predict what owners are doing that they become more worried and less settled.... (in this sort of situation/context)

However, it could be that she was just looking to see if you were going to take her food? in which case that's not so good. Can you tell from her behaviour which it was? Expecting good thing or bad thing?

Wys
x

i agree its important - especially if you would like a child friendly dog. From personal experience i have known the softest dog to turned nasty when he's stolen a childs food wrapper.

we have two collie puppies, they always "sit" and "wait" before there bowls are put down. Then during one of their meal times each day (currently 3 times a day), we use "leave" and take away their food mid way through, get them to "sit" again and return the food - they are very good at this now! And we generally stay with them at meals time at the moment - so they get their fair share whilst puppies - and tell them "good" etc.

Jo x