I went to her seminar, thought she was useless and the whole thing a waste of time. It was portayed to be helpful in the management of dogs on a daily basis, i.e our kennels and it was a complete waste of time.

Yeah, that's what I've done with Bryan. So now we can walk past a dog on the other side of the road without him barking. Maybe in another year we'll be able to walk on the same side of the road

About CM setting dogs up to fail, that's the only way I could help Bryan with his barking problem. I had to confront him with dogs he didn't know while he was on his lead. There was no other way I could teach him not to do it - so by confronting him with his 'trigger' I can teach him not to do it.

Hope that makes sense?

I have looked at her website. From what I can gather she seems to think we have acres of woodland for our dogs to roam and fulfill their instincts. Whereas the truth often is that we share a park with lots of other dogs and people. Maybe it is the difference in nationality.

Its not quite the same
You know the distance you can walk Bryan and he is rewarded for being calm at that distance, you are saying yourself that hopefully you will be able to reduce that distance (and you will) You are teaching him an alternative behaviour to barking and lunging and slowly showing him that meeting other dogs is nothing to worry about

What I am talking about in setting up to fail is dragging your dog right up to a load of other dogs until he is totaly going mental, scared and stressed out of his mind and then punishing his reactions - I have seen him forcing a reactive dog to react and then alpha rolling the dog and pinning it down when the threatining dog it is so scared of and is reacting to is right up close, there is no way in that dogs head it can become calm - there is a nasty big threat there, eventualy it just gives up and totaly shuts down because it has been overpowered

Turrid Rugaas' ideas on caming signals in dogs are now widely accepted amongst professional trainers. It is therefore worth reading the book, then watching the programme with the sound down, so that you really look at the body language the dog is employing, so you can see how it is feeling.

As I said, I don't respect trainers who train through fear and intimidation, just as I don't respect teachers who teach children through fear and intimidation. The best way to learn is to be relaxed and open and ready for it. The way Caesar does it, is the total opposite, he floods the dogs and puts them into a high state of anxiety...not ideal for anyone or anything to learn effectively, or learn exactly what you want them too.

As I say, regardless of whether you like Turrid Rugaas her philosophy on calming signals is now widely accepted. The book is an easy read and it is worth turning the sound on the programme down and really watch what the dogs are trying to communicate...

Yes, dogs being dogs always have access to all this "land" where they can fulfill their needs as canines!! I agree with you.

Her philosophy is just that Ailsa, and to be honest I sat through two hours of it, I honestly couldnt be bothered to read the first page of her book based on what I listened too. She said that we must accept aggression from our dogs as they need to express themselves as dogs. So from that if your dog takes a chunk out of your arm because he is a dog, it must be ok? She offered us absolutely no help for dealing with nervous or aggressive dogs in the boarding kennels, except to say that lip licking "may" mean the dog was uneasy or nervous, but we shouldnt confuse it with a dog that just licked its lips!!!

I think most people here would agree that we have to accept aggression as part of the make up of our dogs, then we have to deal with the aggression, look at triggers for it etc.
I'm not sure what the problem is with her saying a dog may be nervous if it licks it's lips, or it may not be, as you have to look at the whole picture. If you look at the whole picture and the dog is nervous, then you can deal with that better surely? Some dogs may look confident but are really nervous/worried...How many times do you see pups out and about on a lead for the first time, stopping, scratching, yawning, lip licking etc? The woners may just think they are tired...when actually they are probably stressed to the hilt and could devlop problems as a result.

I'm not saying Turid is the b all and end all in the dog world, but what I am saying is that if you are aware of her work on calming signals (the book is hardly a difficult read or long...) then it is worth watching Caesar with the sound down and checking out how the dogs are actually feeling. He makes them fearful and that is the last thing a trainer should do IMO.

I'm afraid that there is such a thing as discipline and when you have more experience you will realise how important it is.

In terms of the current accepted theories on animal psychology Pam is right, it sounds like you both just have a slightly different definition of the word discipline (correct me if im wrong)

So you can use positive/negative punishment in a calm assertive way and call it 'discipline', and call positive/negative punishment carried out in an angry way 'punishment', but it's all semantics really... they are still both defined as positive punishment from a psychological point of view, but a good calm mind set from the handler will make the animal more likely to respond in a desirable way im sure we all agree!
lol look at me butting in anyway!! sorry

How very patronising....
In this case Ben is right.