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Elizabeth13
Dogsey Junior
Elizabeth13 is offline  
Location: Sheffield, UK
Joined: Feb 2009
Posts: 42
Female 
 
15-04-2011, 07:51 PM

Young male - Testing behaviour?

I am currently looking after an 8 month old young cross breed.
He came to me on Wednesday rescued from being PTS because of 'biting'. He is vaccinated with a Vet Card, but not yet neutered (booked in by me with my Vets for this on Thursday).

He is a very pleasant young dog, pleased to say hello to anyone with his ears back and wagging tail, likes to lick a lot and is happy to be cuddled. In fact, he loves attention. You can pick him up, and he will climb on you when possible (he clearly has whippet/lurcher in him, and I find they tend to be cuddly like that), and you can completely smother him and he is happy.

When we gave him his first bone, he seemed very pleased and proceeded to look at my OH and growl. We can play with the bone (or any toys) or take them off him and there is no aggression - but he does like to sometimes growl. I have put this down to play (am I correct?). I have also pet him and approached him with eating, seems to be no signs of any aggression. Also, he 'bowed' in front of a friend outside and did the similar/same type of growl, and clearly he seemed to be trying to initiate play? Hence why I think the growling with his bone isn't a problem?

As said, he loves attention and will come up to you for cuddles. When cuddling, there is the odd (quite rare occasion) when he will mouth at your hands. It doesn't hurt, and I understand the need for this but I am telling him 'no' when he does this as it can be an undesirable behaviour when it comes to homing him.

His training is a work in progress. If he knows the command 'sit', he (most of the time) doesn't show it. Same as he's picky on when he will come to you, and usually if jumping on the bed will only get off by me pulling him off. I am working on teaching him to walk to heel on the lead also, but he is not very bad on the lead (only pulls sometimes).

Today though, when myself and my OH were sat on the sofa, he stood in front of us staring at us and began to snarl/snap the air with his mouth (whilst staring at us) and proceeded then to bark at us. I said 'no' and then chose to ignore him and told my partner to do the same, not looking at him. After a minute or two he stopped and walked off.
When it came to me then leaving him to take my OH to work (5 minute drive), I put his bed at the bottom of the stairs and shut all the other house doors, and tried to get him to come. He wouldn't - and proceeded to growl/bark at me after a few attempts at me commanding him. So I did have to get him to go where I wanted and then shut him there. I didn't hear a peep from him and he seemed fine being left those 5 minutes.

Is he testing me? The snarling/snapping in our direction (not to bite, it wasn't an aggressive attack per-say) was a new behaviour from the mouthing. Was this him being a bit childish? Perhaps just trying to demand our attention? Did I handle it the right way, or have I viewed this behaviour wrong and should be doing something else?
If he is testing us, I need to clearly make sure he knows we are boss and to be a good dog with no bad habits or behavioural issues to take to a forever home with. Is there anything I should always be doing with him to ensure he knows we are boss?

He is walked at least twice a day, and as I said we are working on the walking to heel. He has dinner once a day (tried morning and evening, and he did not eat in the morning). I have playtime with him in the garden to throw balls/tug toys with him. I am trying to teach him sit. He is not allowed on the bed or sofa with us. He is not allowed to follow us into the bathroom (we shut the door to him).
He does sleep in our bedroom with us, but on his bed. He hasn't had a single accident during the night and sleeps fully without disturbing us, trying to climb up or being vocal.

I hope that was enough info. on our situation. Any input to whether we are doing it right, on the right direction and just need to carry on doing what we're doing would be great. If we're doing it wrong, some advice would be great. Or if there is just anything else we could be doing as well as what we are would be great.

Many thanks!
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Ben Mcfuzzylugs
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15-04-2011, 08:04 PM
Hi there

Sounds like a lovely cuddly guy with some little issues

First thing here I wouldnt bother him when he is eating or has a bone - or if you are going to play swapsies and give him something nice before giving him his bone back
But really imo it can cause more trouble than anything teaching a dog that he is not safe when eating

You are prob right that growling is play - BUT - it might not be - growling is also a warning, it could be that he isnt happy with you taking his bone and is telling you - but is too polite to follow it up with anything more (just now - he might later)
Please just leave him to be happy with his bone and if you need it off him then just distract him somewhere else with something fun and take his bone when he has forgot about it

Difficult to know about the growling at night, could just have been a grumble because he was comfy and sleepy, best thing I think is not to get into conflicts, get in a routine like giving him a nice treat in the area you want him to be - and i bet in a couple of nights he will be racing to his spot

I had the same with Mia, at nighttime she refused to follow me upstairs, the way she eyeballed me I was pretty sure I was gonna get bit if I pushed it
So I played with her a bit then lured her up the stairs with a treat
now no issues

I really would suggest a behaviourist to look at him just incase
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Elizabeth13
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Location: Sheffield, UK
Joined: Feb 2009
Posts: 42
Female 
 
15-04-2011, 08:13 PM
Originally Posted by Ben Mcfuzzylugs View Post
First thing here I wouldnt bother him when he is eating or has a bone - or if you are going to play swapsies and give him something nice before giving him his bone back
But really imo it can cause more trouble than anything teaching a dog that he is not safe when eating
I only did it the once, just to check there was no food aggression with him



Originally Posted by Ben Mcfuzzylugs View Post
Difficult to know about the growling at night, could just have been a grumble because he was comfy and sleepy, best thing I think is not to get into conflicts, get in a routine like giving him a nice treat in the area you want him to be - and i bet in a couple of nights he will be racing to his spot

I had the same with Mia, at nighttime she refused to follow me upstairs, the way she eyeballed me I was pretty sure I was gonna get bit if I pushed it
So I played with her a bit then lured her up the stairs with a treat
now no issues

I really would suggest a behaviourist to look at him just incase
I don't know quite were you got the night bit from there, as he is perfect during the night! I think you may be referring to putting him at the bottom of the stairs when I left him? If so, I will go ahead and try to reward using treats to get him to go where I want (can't believe that hasn't already clicked with me ).

Still a bit unsure about the mini snarl/snapping and barking at us bit. Hopefully someone will have some idea though!
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Ben Mcfuzzylugs
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15-04-2011, 09:11 PM
Sorry yes I ment when you were trying to move him

Again my Mia does the air snapping thing, and a yelp growly thing sitting infront of me when she is attention seeking - or needing the loo - I can only tell the difference by the intensity of her look (If she needs the loo she really stairs)
I think you did the right thing, if he didnt need anything then he was poss attentions seeking, trying to get you to do s omething and just being plane rude
If he dosent get a reaction from it he will most likely stop doing it

I would still see if you can get behavioural help from someone can actually watch him, its impossible to know totaly on the web and Im only really going on what my girl is up to when she does these things
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Elizabeth13
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15-04-2011, 09:13 PM
Thanks for your reply.
I have asked a local trainer I know for advice, hopefully she's going to get back to me soon (she's really nice).

It's good to hear it sounds like i'm on the right path!

Still happy to hear from anyone else with their opinions/advice
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ClaireandDaisy
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16-04-2011, 09:14 AM
TBH (and I may well be reading things into this that aren`t there) it sounds like he`s been owned by someone with a `Dominance` method.
Some people pester dogs when they`re eating and insist on taking food away and being all Big Boss - which naturally makes a dog very anxious around food.
The same people tend to confront dogs - taking warning behaviour as a threat rather than a dialogue. The air-snap is a step on from a growl in the system of warning signals (that the dog isn`t happy and possibly feels threatened). I would imagine he`s been punished for growling or exhibiting warning behaivour?
Anyway - he sounds like a nice dog who is a bit baffled by hiuman behaviour (I know the feeling!).
I would walk away from any stressy behaviour and let him calm down. Then train him when he`s calm.
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SarahJade
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Location: West Yorkshire
Joined: Sep 2010
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16-04-2011, 10:00 AM
I would recommend putting of the neutering just for a few more weeks, maybe a month.
Most dogs of this age/older can take a few weeks to settle in, I would never want to neuter a dog until it is settled and any behaviour issues worked out.
Any fear issues (can be shown as fear aggression) could be made much worse and I don't feel that as yet he will be showing his true colours.
I'm not saying don't neuter but I firmly believe that neutering should be put off until any dog is mature and confident, with no issues.

I do think that your methods are helping the behaviours he is showing and that you should continue them, but get in a trainer/behaviourist asap, which you are already doing. Make sure they use positive methods, not any of this dominance rubbish, that won't help at all in the long term.
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paulandfloyd
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Location: Cumbria
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16-04-2011, 10:01 AM
Originally Posted by Elizabeth13 View Post
I am currently looking after an 8 month old young cross breed.
He came to me on Wednesday rescued from being PTS because of 'biting'. He is vaccinated with a Vet Card, but not yet neutered (booked in by me with my Vets for this on Thursday).

He is a very pleasant young dog, pleased to say hello to anyone with his ears back and wagging tail, likes to lick a lot and is happy to be cuddled. In fact, he loves attention. You can pick him up, and he will climb on you when possible (he clearly has whippet/lurcher in him, and I find they tend to be cuddly like that), and you can completely smother him and he is happy.

When we gave him his first bone, he seemed very pleased and proceeded to look at my OH and growl. We can play with the bone (or any toys) or take them off him and there is no aggression - but he does like to sometimes growl. I have put this down to play (am I correct?). I have also pet him and approached him with eating, seems to be no signs of any aggression. Also, he 'bowed' in front of a friend outside and did the similar/same type of growl, and clearly he seemed to be trying to initiate play? Hence why I think the growling with his bone isn't a problem?

As said, he loves attention and will come up to you for cuddles. When cuddling, there is the odd (quite rare occasion) when he will mouth at your hands. It doesn't hurt, and I understand the need for this but I am telling him 'no' when he does this as it can be an undesirable behaviour when it comes to homing him.

His training is a work in progress. If he knows the command 'sit', he (most of the time) doesn't show it. Same as he's picky on when he will come to you, and usually if jumping on the bed will only get off by me pulling him off. I am working on teaching him to walk to heel on the lead also, but he is not very bad on the lead (only pulls sometimes).

Today though, when myself and my OH were sat on the sofa, he stood in front of us staring at us and began to snarl/snap the air with his mouth (whilst staring at us) and proceeded then to bark at us. I said 'no' and then chose to ignore him and told my partner to do the same, not looking at him. After a minute or two he stopped and walked off.
When it came to me then leaving him to take my OH to work (5 minute drive), I put his bed at the bottom of the stairs and shut all the other house doors, and tried to get him to come. He wouldn't - and proceeded to growl/bark at me after a few attempts at me commanding him. So I did have to get him to go where I wanted and then shut him there. I didn't hear a peep from him and he seemed fine being left those 5 minutes.

Is he testing me? The snarling/snapping in our direction (not to bite, it wasn't an aggressive attack per-say) was a new behaviour from the mouthing. Was this him being a bit childish? Perhaps just trying to demand our attention? Did I handle it the right way, or have I viewed this behaviour wrong and should be doing something else?
If he is testing us, I need to clearly make sure he knows we are boss and to be a good dog with no bad habits or behavioural issues to take to a forever home with. Is there anything I should always be doing with him to ensure he knows we are boss?

He is walked at least twice a day, and as I said we are working on the walking to heel. He has dinner once a day (tried morning and evening, and he did not eat in the morning). I have playtime with him in the garden to throw balls/tug toys with him. I am trying to teach him sit. He is not allowed on the bed or sofa with us. He is not allowed to follow us into the bathroom (we shut the door to him).
He does sleep in our bedroom with us, but on his bed. He hasn't had a single accident during the night and sleeps fully without disturbing us, trying to climb up or being vocal.

I hope that was enough info. on our situation. Any input to whether we are doing it right, on the right direction and just need to carry on doing what we're doing would be great. If we're doing it wrong, some advice would be great. Or if there is just anything else we could be doing as well as what we are would be great.

Many thanks!
What made you rescue this dog? if it's got a history or "biting"
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ClaireandDaisy
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16-04-2011, 10:31 AM
Originally Posted by paulandfloyd View Post
What made you rescue this dog? if it's got a history or "biting"
People lie when they rehome dogs. I would never take any previous owner`s `reason` as gospel - I`d assess the dog. And the best way is in a home.
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SarahJade
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Location: West Yorkshire
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16-04-2011, 10:36 AM
Originally Posted by ClaireandDaisy View Post
People lie when they rehome dogs. I would never take any previous owner`s `reason` as gospel - I`d assess the dog. And the best way is in a home.
Gotta agree with that, and an 8 month old which is biting? Yes it can happen but you have to wonder what is happening to make it bite when it appears so friendly, confident and happy. I hate to think of any dog being PTS but in some cases it has to be done (such as a dog who is suffering and slowly, painfully dying). If the issue can be worked on then I would take the dog on and try find the best advice to help the poor little thing, just like you are doing
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