Zeitas getting worse

as some of you may remember I have posted about Zeitas bossiness/ resource guarding before.

Well it did settle for a while.

But a couple of weeks ago she did it again over a toy she had Zak pinned to the floor. over a pigs ear remnant

Then Ash gave them a treat together and it happened again but he got in the middle and he got bit (by which one he doesn't know)

Now today her and mums dog Samson have had a scrap over a ball, who started it we don't know as they are both ball possessive. However mum got bit quiet deep, she says it was Zeita who got her but I didn't see as I had hold of her. She has drawn blood.

When she is not in guard mode she is soft as anything.

I am so worried now i dont know what to do.

When out for a walk she will happily play with other dogs but then I don't take her toys with her.

I have said I might have to consider my options but I don't know what my options are. What more can I do. She is put outside after each time and told To leave it.

I can't risk the boys getting in the middle of a scrap. They are currently playing tag with her lol.

We can't afford a behaviourist and I have used them in the past and have never been overly impressed and they were highly recommended.

So other than remove all her toys and treats I am stuck as to what to do.

Help......

Oh sorry to hear this Hun.

Did you keep up the training/techniques you were using or did you relax them thinking that things were better?

how is her general obedience training going...I still think this would help a lot. For example, Hoki knows she is not allowed to approach Stumpy when Stumpy has a chew (or her dinner or a toy). I'm now comfortable that even if I left the room she would not try and take something from Stumpy. But it did take consistancy in the training. Everytime they had a chew each, I would put them one on either side of me. Hoki was made to lie down and was not allowed up again until Stumpy had finished (she's always slower). I would keep a treat in my pocket and if Hoki stayed lying down she would get the extra treat once Stumpy had finished. But I had worked a lot on Hoki's stay beforehand so this was just upping the distraction.

I find it a bit sad that mine don't 'share' like I see other dog families do, but at least we are all living peacefully.

oh and by the way, they were as bad as Zeita sounds - Hoki got my knee once when they were fighting over something before I started this regime.

But I do understand your concerns - its one thing having this kind of thing when there are only adults in the house, but quite another when you have big dogs and small children.

I really hope you can get it sorted.

I find the more I practice sharing and leaving etc. the better the troublesome ones become. Frankie used to be a demon for guarding any ole piece of cr@p tbh as well as treats etc. but I was extremely watchful and would step in before anything kicked off. I've done the same with Milan who came with food guarding/stealing issues and while she's still not perfect she is very good. I always make a point of giving them bones and treats etc. together, but wont let them nick each others. When giving treats I make them all sit and call out a name at a time and throw the treat to them. If they miss and one of the others retrieves it I make sure the one it was intended for doesn't miss out. They now know there's no point trying to steal each others because they get more when they stick to the rules. Same with bones, pigs ears etc. I hand them out by naming who I'm giving it to, anyone else makes a move towards it is told to leave it, and should anyone nick one that doesn't belong to them I take it back and give it to it's rightful owner. I don't seperate mine for any treats food etc, but they can go and find somewhere quiet to chew it if that's what they want. Milan favours the doormat in the conservatory for some reason and the others leave her to it. She's improved so much her and Rio share bones by chewing at either end in tandem. They also swap bones from mouth to mouth. So for us it's been vigilence and patience while enforcing boundaries all the time.

to be honest her obedience is excellent, ( even if I do say so myself).

I suppose I had relaxed a little as she had improved. Normally when given treat together there hasn't been an issue its just this time she dropped hers and Zak was near it

I have decided to only let her have her toys supervised so they will be collected up and given when I decide from now on.

If Zak has a toy she will get it off him some how but no nastiness, if he has it in his mouth she is never nasty but will do anything to make him drop it. She only fights if he goes to pick it up not if he already has it but you can tell she doesn't like him having anything.

Other times ie when no toys around they wiill play happily and drink out of the same bowl at the same time.



Will try the down stay when having treats although more often than not its longer lasting treats that are the issue. Toys are definately a huge issue

So sorry to read this Mel

If this was happening in my house, all toys would be put away and only come out on MY terms! That's all I've got to say about it really, wish I could say more, but I just couldn't tolerate this, the toys would have to go, until a much later date when they've (well Zeita!) learned how to behave around them! I'm a hard woman though

Have you tried distancing yourself from her a tad yet? I honestly think SHE thinks she's wearing the trousers around your house. If you're around, she shouldn't behave like this, if you're not, then it's different, but you have been around and in my view she should know better than to behave like that when mummy's about. Nuff said, just good luck and sorry about your mum, and this must be getting you really down. You're going to have to bite the bullet and be a bit gruffer around her every time she steps out of line, I know you don't want to, but you're going to have to aren't you really, this could get so out of hand Mel. How's Zak taking all this then, ears back, it wasn't me mum honest?!!! Oh I feel for you,and I might have all this to come myself, but I hope not

everything else I ask her to do she does, its just this she flies off and wont leave. She has an excellent leave it command normally. Toys are going away after tea, Ash is off out walking her now. I am not in the mood. Its like she is possessed and has to protect her toys, which they aren't hers they belong to both of them. I am very firm with her and dont accept bad beahviour off her or Zak and they are told and they know when I am not happy.

She usually loves to please, will do all her obedience things etc except this aaarrrghhhhhh.

Try not to beat yourself up about it Mel, it's not your fault, and it's no good tying yourself up in knots with the stress of it, it's not going to help. I really feel for you honest I do, and you know how much I love your Zeita.

However, personally, I don't think it's a case of whether or not they do everything that is asked of them whilst training, it's not just a matter of that, it's really all about how they perceive YOU, 24/7 you! Anybody can walk into my house and get a sit and down with Zena, but that doesn't mean to say she's going to respect them or listen to them or think they're above her in the pecking order does it? I can't really get across what I'm trying to say here Mel, but my instinct is, just as I told you last time, Zeita's not daft, she knows how much you adore her, to her, she's top dog around the place because she IS isn't she to YOU??? Just like Zena is to me with Georgie around, but I don't let her know that as such, well I try not to! Unbeknown to yourself, somehow, she has picked up from you that she can do no wrong, and if she does, mummy won't be cross for long, she'll soon come round, she doesn't really mean it when she tells me off, etc. etc. I'm sure that's how SHE feels, and until you actually feel in yourself that she is becoming a bit too bossy around the place, and really, really MEAN it when you chastise her (which you probably did today I know that!!!) I don't mean by physically punishing her God forbid or anything like that, but when she's naughty, you've got to really MEAN it when you tell her off. They soooo pick up on our body language don't they, that's all they've got to go on, and when you really, really mean something they sure know it, purely by the shape of your body, head, everything Mel. I don't mean to sound hard, I know how awful you must feel, I'm really only trying to help you with the experience I've had in the past, but then you've got gsd experiences too, so you know all about what I'm saying, or rather, trying to say anyway??

Put today behind you, start being a little bit firmer with her even though it might pain you to do so, because she COULD walk all over you if she so wanted. Again I say, this training business, do this, do that, that's all very well, and yes, we all want an obedient dog around us don't we, especially ones like these, but it's not just that with them, it's being firm in a kind way without breaking that loving bond you have with them, and it's so very hard to put it down on paper! The most experience I gained was with my Cassie, she taught me all of this, because she was such a bossy boots madam, and I just wouldn't/couldn't let her win.

Hugs for you Mel, I do hope this doesn't sound like I'm some authority on them coz I'm not, I only have the experience of what you are going through with previous dogs of my own, and I hope I've come across nicely, I really wouldn't want for you to take this the wrong way. You don't even have to be ascertive, you just have to be firmer, let your head rule your heart instead of the other way around, and never put your dogs in a position that YOU can't control yourself if you know what I mean???? Good luck Mel, hugs for Zak, and some for this little madam Zeita! Lol!xxxxx

Hi
You may find the booklet by Pat McConnell a big help. It's called "Feeling Outnumbered?" and amongst other things, addresses concerns that there may be tensions between two dogs in the home with training. It's only a small booklet with not too many pages so not expensive

Linky here, see if you think it will help as you can look inside with this link:

http://www.amazon.com/Feeling-Outnum...dp/1891767062#

I'd tend to avoid getting toys out if she's going to be with your mum's dog who also likes toys - so you could just use management there. If she has fav. toys or treats (pigs ears?) you could separate when feeding via a childgate

Out of interest, what did the behaviourists give as advice?

I think for a dog who is "hard wired" to resource guard it's pretty hard for them not to - so the environment needs to be made as "easy" as possible for her. She sounds like a nice dog in fact Another thing is that undiagnosed medical conditions *can* cause all sorts of problems, so if you don't get any joy it may be worth getting blood tests done including one for hypothyroid (not saying she's unwell, please don't think that).



Wys
x

What a nightmare Mel Sorry you are going through this, it must be really upsetting.

I agree that you should only let the two dogs have toys/chews etc when supervised and always make sure you take them away before anything kicks off.

I would also really up the obedience training, make Zeita (in particular) work for all treats, toys, affection etc etc. Let her know that YOU make the rules in the house, not her. It sounds to me as though she is getting too big for her boots and thinks she rules the roost. She has to learn that it is up to YOU (you hubby, and boys) what goes on in the house, and not her.

Have you had a chat with Elaine (at training) about the problems.

Nothing much to add except for sending some hugs. It must be so worrying.Fudge went through a stage of growling at the kids when she had certain treats. Now we just don't give her those treats.