Chase Behaviour

Brodie has came on leaps and bounds and we are now confidence enough to let him off lead and let off some steam.. most of the time he sticks close by the big whoose that he is!

But whenever we see a bike or a jogger he's off! Full pelt and there's no getting him back! When people actually stop i can grab him but most keep running or cycling on and being a collie he chases after them!

If i can get him back in time i clip him on the lead and give him a tibet when the bikes and joggers are flying past. THe other day we saw joggers and so did Brodie. But the minute i called him back he was there. He got so much fuss and attention and i was really proud of hii! But today he was out on a walk with his friend (a collie x GS) and we passed bikers and joggers and there was just no way of recalling him! I'm scared that he's going to start nipping or even worse biting at the joggers as he is jumping up at them!

His recall is generally quite good and we have came along way with him in a short space of time. We've tried de-senstiving him. But when we're jogging along past him he thinks its a game and just comes bounding after us to play! But this time there is no fierce barking just oh look its mummy!

Today was the first time i noticed though he was shaking when i eventually got him back on the lead! The past couple of days he's not been right.. been shaking at night, showing all the same signs as when the fireworks are on. He's fine at the moment and the shaking soon stopped today when he got into his comfort zone (the car! when i first got him he was terrified of the car now he loves it!)

Any ideas? Apart from keeping him on the lead all the time i don't' think there is?

Have you tried introducing a ball when walking/playing outside? Collies love to chase as you already know,but are particulary fixated with balls and given that they are working dogs-they need a purpose.They are very inteligent so need mental stimulation and using a ball or equavelent focuses them with you rather than with joggers & cyclists.

I would take him to an isolated field early in the morning armed with a pocket full of treats and a rubber ball.When he returns the ball-offer him a treat! He will quickly learn that good behaviour means he gets food!

Empathy! I adopted a 2yr old ESS in November. Recall at home is excellent – out and about is 50/50. Tasty treats or me trying to be exciting, hiding, running away etc don’t work if he’s scented a bird, rabbit etc.

I now know he’s a sheep chaser. No real damage done, but I’m really embarrassed about it and have been beating myself up because I should never have let it happen.

A dog “out of control”, whether its chasing joggers, cyclists or livestock is a real worry. Mine risks being shot on the spot.

Our breeds (BC & ESS) are not the type of dogs that can realistically be exercised on a lead!

I’m driving 14 miles each way to a “safe” area for off lead exercise.

I’m using a 30 ft long line and doing loads of recall work on my local walks (including private farmland where I have shooting rights).

I’m taking him through sheep fields on a 30 ft line attached to his collar, plus a second line to a harness for safety, and doing some serious telling off when he’s bad, but loads of praise and treats when he’s good.

I’m going to see a behaviourist – I need help. I’ll do and spend as much as necessary. If a spray / shock collar is necessary, then I know its unpopular but I’m open minded. He’s a smashing dog – but he’ll have a very poor quality of life if he can’t run. He’ll have no life if a farmer blasts him for sheep worrying! I’d like to think conventional training will solve it – whether he’ll be a 100% reliable is questionable given his former owners etc.

All we do with ours is pick a really busy area and sit on a bench with a loose lead or hand on the collar and every time a jogger or bike or horse or pushchair or whatever else comes into view tell them to leave, if we see them at a distance we tell them to leave and stroke them while calm and praise them. As they get closer we keep repeating the command and praising and treating all the while they ignore them. If they start to get agitated I tell them no and stop stroking and praising until they are calm again. It takes time but all of mine are trustworthy around bikes horses etc and know they are not allowed to chase. They can chase their ball or each other or the birds but not people, horses, bikes etc. Work towards having him on lead as little as possible, the more free running he gets chasing things he is allowed to the better.

I was lucky enough to spend a day with some top UK behaviourists back in the Autumn at a seminar on predatory chase behaviour (which is one of my interests, as my breed lives to chase).

The speaker was David Ryan, an APBC behaviourist who is also a police dog handler and training instructor so we were treated to some good training footage.

My own dog was trained with reward based methods only to a recall off running animals. In a way I've been lucky as although her chase drive is high, she is very responsive and I've trained her from a pup to respond to this command, (and recall), above all others. I've put in a lot of intensive work with both: reason being we exercise a lot in the New Forest which is full of livestock and wild creatures too.

One of the first things that should be done is to have a vet check. Very often there is nothing amiss - however, once in a while something comes up. For instance, one dog chased because it had a brain tumour. Something was pressing in the wrong place in the brain and that caused the chasing. This was unusual but illustrates that nothing can be taken for granted.

I'd also recommend getting a reputable (preferably APBC ) behaviourist on board. Ensure they have good hands on as well as academic experience.

Around 90 per cent of dogs /David Ryan has worked with have responded to controlling the target of the chase (because this controls the behaviour). The target is changed to one that can be controlled. The initial target is learned by the dog (eg sheep, bikes, joggers) although the behaviour is an inherited one. The remaining dogs were either ill or responded to another method based around using cotton wool (too long to go into ...!!)

Working with a good behaviourist will involve a lot of commitment but would be worth it esp. if the behaviour has taken hold. He/she will assess, show how to change the target, discuss how toremove all reinforcement of inappropriate chasing, (essential), increase the homoestasis of the dog, and teach learn to earn and obedieince training :smt001 including retrieve, plus train the predictive command (which is what I've taught my dog).

This is as far as the police go with their training

http://www.apbc.org.uk/members.php

If anyone is seriously worried I'd suggest contacting David Ryan as he deals a lot with sheep chasing and could possibly either travel to someone or else recommend someone in their area.

Hth a bit

Wys
x

Hi there

I hope my other post regarding the seminar i went to will give you some hope. My geography isn't brilliant but I'd suggest you contact David Ryan and ask for his advice, it may be that he will be able to see you himself. He lives in Cumbria - sheep country.

Interestingly, he discussed shock collars and he doesn't like them - as he's had to re-train dogs that have been trained (supposedly) not to chase with them, they didn't work.

He will use a spray collar as a last resort, although he rarely needs to, as most dogs respond to reward based methods, and does have a particular method using one which is unusual to say the least, and which keeps punishment to the minimum and doesn't associate it with the owner (which is important).

Hth
Wys
x

Wonder why he was shaking? It's hard to comment not being able to see him, but if this continues i'd take him to the vet, detailing when he was shaking, so maybe keep a diary for a few days. It could be fireworks but it's odd that he's doing it in the situation you describe.

It may be that you can get him fixated onto a toy he can chase and control, that often does it for a collie - but it depends on how old he is and if you can make the toy the most interesting thing, as there is knack to toy training. One rule is to never leave the toy around the house, it must always be very special.

My BSD started chasing bikes when she was a few months and I used clicker training and special toy to train her to respond to me, and forget the bikes...however a lot depends on your personal training experience

Good luck!

Wys
x

Spaceman, it sounds like your springer has been free hunting in his previous home. it's common in springers as they are bred to hunt but you have to put the control in. If they have been allowed to free hunt, it is hard to bring them back but it can be done. I introduced my springer to game too early and she chased. It's taken me nearly 2 years to bring her back and we're not there yet.

I went right back to basics with her, which meant heeling her on lead, sitting, staying. I had put a LOT of work into her basic training so that helped a lot.

Have you been on itsaspringthing website? It's a site dedicated to springers and has a wealth of information, as well as a message board with a lot of active members.

You will get there but it will take time, good luck!

Helen

thanks for all your replies going to take them on board!

we go to the country parks for a walk most days.. its the wkends when the joggers and bikes come out! I'm going to try and get him to sit on a bench and watch the world go by!
With balls, to be honest he is not interested. We've been trying to make it fun with him but he's not interested. Most of the time he will chase the ball but minute he gets to it he just picks it up for two steps then drops it and comes running back! When he does get the idea of come with the ball and drops the ball he gets so much praise!

With balls I started with mine in the garden on the patio, that way its never too far away if you have to go retrieve it yourself which happened a lot but they got the hang of it with me running around being a loony getting them all hyped up, we gradually moved on to throwing it further.
I appreciate some dogs will never be interested in a ball, but think a bit laterally sometimes a rubber jack shaped thing that bounces around in a funny fashion might interest him more, or a frisbee, mine comes back wearing his like a halo as it has no centre. Also we used to have a foam rubber thing which whistled as it flew through the air, can't for the life of me remember what it was called something like a "nerf" it was the kids but that got the dogs interested. they also make foam rubber balls and things you fire out of guns, sometimes you have to be a bit imaginative, or plain nuts