Well said.

There is world of difference between an obese dog (which is cruelty as far as I'm concerned) and a dog carrying an extra couple of kilos. Every dog has a different metabolism and character (dogs that eat anything, fussy eaters, nervous and highly strung dogs, etc.) which obviously contributes to how difficult or easy it is to gain or lose weight. Same as some people can eat absolutely anything and everything and remain stick thin, while others can look at a mince pie and put on weight.

There is NO excuse for an obese dog, but it can be difficult to control a dog carrying a little extra when you have the metabolism, age and character of the dog working against you.

You can't control the actions of other people. I'm religious about moving everything edible but I can't say the same for my family unfortunately.

Murphy is a scavenger... he will eat ANYTHING... and he will eat it regardless of whether he has just eaten his actual meal or not.

The more we tried to 'diet' him, the more he tried to scavenge.

One evening, I went to put our dinner on the table (the dogs had just finished eating); and had left the kitchen for about a minute. As I walked back in, Murphy was stood up at the hob - which was still red hot - licking boiling hot oil from a red hot roasting dish that was on the hob top

He has tried to steal food from under the grill and from pans that are boiling on the hob before, when I've been less than 3ft away.

If he is on the right 'rations' he is fine, but as soon as we start to decrease them, even by tiny amounts, he will try and eat everything he sees. What I'm more worried about is the burns and scalds he could end up with when he tries to steal food.

Luckily, Max isn't like this, as that could be worse - he is able to open the breadbin, microwave and fridge....

Posting and dashing, a ton of work to do, but ripsnorter, the lady with the setters HAD to muzzle her dog for it's own safety, it had IBD and made itself ill eating rubbish. Is it cruel to muzzle a dog to stop it from eating even more, and therefore allowing it to carry extra weight? Particularly on an older dog whose joints are going to be that bit more arthritic and creaky?? I don't know, haven't had to make that decision, but I'd lean towards wanting to keep the dog at the right weight, so if it did NEED (and I stress the word need) to lose weight, then I'd have no problem using something like a basket muzzle to try and prevent it eating rubbish.

Labradork, perhaps you need to clicker train your family? I know when I go to my parent's house, my two get treats all day, so they just don't get any tea, or less tea than they would normally get. They have my mother so well trained, all they do is sit by the fridge and wait for her to feed them

Not an excuse for having an overweight dog! I think I would invest in a safety gate for the kitchen door!

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But the dogs eat in the kitchen, and are put in there when we eat. There is a dog gate on that door already...

In the oil incident, I was gone from the kitchen for less than a minute, into the next room.

He had just finished eating his own dinner - should I muzzle him in the house after he's eaten?

I can only comment on my own dogs, no one else's. Same applies to you I think?

Would it have been cruel to stick a muzzle on a dog who had been muzzle free for 10 years? A dog was only ever a couple of kilos over weight? A dog who managed to get out and about right until the day he was PTS? Absolutely. Like Labradork said, there is a world of difference between a dog who is obese and a dog who is a couple of kilos overweight. We did the best we could for Woody all of his life, but a muzzle would've been a step too far. It wouldn't have stopped him from stealing food around the house either, or would you have the dog muzzled in the house too?!

And don't tell me I should "train" my family, I think they'd be quite offended if I started to try and clicker train them!

That's why I qualified my response with the capitalised 'NEED' and I don't think I've specifically comment on another person's dog, just queried situations about scavenging and stealing I also said I don't think you can say a dog is obese because it's 'X' weight and according to the chart at the vet it says it should be 'Y' weight. Each dog is individual, and, as I said in my first post I think there is an ideal 'range', not a specific weight for a dog.

But what if your dog had been five or six kg's overweight, and struggled to exercise becuase of poor joints? Different situation may call for different measures. I'm lucky with Chloe (collie x Lab) that she wasn't one for eating everything she found on a walk, but if she had been a scavenger, I would have considered muzzling her for her own good as she definitely NEEDED to lose weight, and once she had, she was much more mobile. She wouldn't have had a retrospective view and a grudge against me because she'd never worn a basket muzzle, she would just have got on with her walks with a muzzle on.

As for training families, I gave up long ago, and I'm sure mine did with me as well. Hence why the girls don't often get tea after a visit to the parents

I'm glad you know this, anthropomorphising dogs is never a good thing!

I agree, no-one says its easy but it is not the most difficult thing to manage either IMO but I dont think people have a problem with dogs being a bit chubby, they are all different after all, but obesity is a health problem and something I personally dont like to see a dog hobbling along puffing and panting, stiff etc due or exhasperbated (sp?) by obestity that owners can do something about.