And here is the fault in the logic.

It isn't an electric fence.
Take a flat batery hold the 2 copper lips to your tongue. That is much closer to the normal stimuly of an e-collar. In fact the setting i normaly use is such that when i test it on my hand i have to up the setting a bit to feel it. (that is on dry hands in dry weather)

Most people who discus the use of an e-collar haven't a clue of what they are talking about. They compare it to electric fences, electrics in the house etc. Add to that someone on a mission to diabolise it by misusing it on himself for instance and you get a witchhunt. I admit that it can be abused but so can every tool. I can show you dogs being strangled with a slip. I can show you showdogs walking in the ring being held in a way that it damages thier troath. In fact all dogs that are walked with the id of a slip have troath damage. But nobody cares it isn't electricity. I will never use a slip because the damage it can cause.

Greetings

Johan

If

Sorry Sally, but an electric shock collar has to, initially at least, be used on a setting that will give your dog a large enough shock to stop it chasing prey. As chasing prey is a very high reward activity for prey-driven dogs, the shock will have to be sufficiently large to stop the dog from chasing. I am under no illusions that an e-collar is designed to cause some pain to the dog - that is how it works.

As I have said, I would possibly use an e-collar as a last resort and to save my dog's life. However, I would not kid myself that the collar just tickles the dog.

Yes, perhaps once the dog has been shocked, then the vibration or the beep that comes prior to the shock will be enough to remind the dog of what comes next, but initially the shock has to hurt to work.

You have raised an interesting point there Moobil, the last time I took one of my dogs to the Vets/groomers I was waiting for my clean but damp hound to be brought out to me when a farmer came in with a BC on 3 legs.

"Oh!" said I, "what has happened to him,” “truck backed over him, said the farmer, me, “looks like it is broken,” him, “yes, it is at least twice,” I said, “that will be a problem for you to have to work without your dog,” the farmer, “it will be but when it happened he just got up and went on working the sheep," indeed a very strong prey drive.

If you read back on this thread, you will see that my own experience of the e-collar was very different to this. The dog was on a long line first to establish the MINIMUM level needed to grab the dog's attention. At first the dog didn't even notice the shock it was so small. The setting was gradually increased to give a shock which would be on a par with the kind of shock given by a master-collar - just high enough to grab the dog's attention for a split second without hurting him - exactly the same way a master-collar works.

Poor dog I hope he will be okay.

Working collies are well known for having such a strong working drive that they will continue to work sheep when they have broken bones

In context of this discussion, just imagine the strength of shock that is needed to get through to a dog that is intent on herding/chasing etc. I have heard of dogs just bracing themselves for a shock and then continuing on.

and there are some people who pay good money for that experience.....

wait......

sorry wrong thread/......

Sorry I haven't read the full thread ... not enough time! However, if what you are saying is that your dog only required a distraction, rather than a shock, it would seem that perhaps your dog is not a dedicated chaser and therefore other methods should definitely be tried prior to using an e-collar.

Is a master-collar an anti-barking type of thing? With a spray?

Terriers are the same, will continue working without showing pain at all, dogs have died underground still holding their quarry.

No it is not really for anti barking although you could use it for that I suppose. I have used it to stop unwanted or dangerous behaviour, it is triggered by the handler not the dog and the timing needs to be spot on by works very well, once the unwanted behaviour is interrupted you can call and treat as you normally would when an instruction has been obeyed.

Most hounds are the same so I would think to some extent it applies to all canines.