The colonial days are gone

Africa, looking at the dictators and genocidal manic leaders that have emerged since all of the countries on that continent got their independence, I sometimes wonder if giving them independence was worthwhile.

Idi Amin, Mugabe, and more than I can remember, the continent is one of the richest in minerals and precious metals etc, but it's all went pear shaped, as usual the losers are the people.

While I agree that the British Empire was a self-serving institution, you might want to look further into African history. Arab slavers were operating long before the West got into it, and the slaves were generally sold by the African people - conquered enemies etc. And while there is evidence of great kingdoms etc., there is also little evidence of democracy.
The best thing for Africa would be if the Debt was written off and then the Superpowers left them alone. Not much chance of that though.

Slavery was abolished hundreds of years ago in the UK, at least when we were in Africa there was a form of law and order.
Admittedly the colonials treated the indigenous people like second class citizens but at least there were no despotic genocidal maniacs ruling the countries, the colonial governments were answerable to the British crown.

African countries will always need foreign aid no matter how much we give them, remember they're fighting and killing each other we're not involved.

I was in Kenya before UDI.
The young white males bragged about their prowess with guns and got very excited at the prospect of shooting a few blacks if there was trouble.
I saw a heavily pregnant black woman shouldered off the pavement (she was in his way) by a white man. She fell and no-one helped her.
My uncle had a child (10 year old boy) digging a swimming pool in his garden from 6 - 6. The boy asked if he could sleep in the garden after work as he lived a long way away and was sometimes too tired to go home. He was refused.
When the black population protested that Whites education was free, and blacks had to pay, the solution was to extend payment to all. Easy enough for whites to pay, difficult for the poorly-paid blacks.
So I don`t think `we` were that wonderful.

I'm sure not all whites were like that, you have to agree that Idi Amin was the worst thing that ever happened to Uganda.

Zimbabwe, formerly Rhodesia was and still is in turmoil, there's a war in Ethiopia that's been going on for 50 years, then there's Sierra Leone were slavery is still practised.

I started this thread making a general comment about the strife in that continent, when you see the dreadful genocide that went on in Rawanda it makes you reflect on how things used to be, reasonably lawful.

My brother has been in African countries for 30 years working for Oxfam, he has been in the thick of the worst atrocities that have happened there helping the victims.

And the poorest in the most valuable resources: water and, consequently, food. Rockall's pretty rich in minerals, but they wouldn't make that an easy place to live.

The kind of law and order anybody could live without. Another culture's law. The indigenous people skivvying to the invaders' orders. I doubt they were very much better off in those days either. These days it's despotic governments skimming off their wealth, colonial times it was, erm, despotic governments (ours!) skimming off their wealth. I'm sure it was just peachy

Not all whites, I'm sure, and yet it was the prevailing custom. And no, we don't have to agree: I think an awful lot of Ugandans will still say that the worst thing ever to have happened to Uganda was the trans-Atlantic slave trade.

I think that, himan nature being what it is, the past has evidence of atrocities etc. from both `sides`. I think Africa has to find her own way forward, but there are a lot of fingers in the pie. Remember the British supported Amin at one time.

Uganda is on the opposite side of the continent, (Eastern Africa), most of the slaves were taken from the west coast, Guinea, Sierra Leon, the Ivory and Gold Coast areas, it's ancient history anyways, slavery was abolished in the UK in 1807.

It's not that long ago when slavery in this country existed, in the 15th century lots of mines and factories had bonded workers, both male and female, some of the kids were bonded too.

Thanks. I actually know where Uganda is. :P Certainly the first slaves were taken from the Atlantic Coasts, and those countries were the worst pillaged, but it did not stop there by any means.

I'm not getting how you distinguish between history you feel is relevant (European colonisation of Africa), and history which you feel is dead and buried (slave trade). I see all history as relevant insofar as it has shaped the world around us. And yes, British colonies in Africa are gone, as is the legal slave trade. Thank f*** on both counts!

All I can say is that since European countries gave up their colonies the subsequent civil wars and power struggles in the various countries have lost more people than the slavers ever took. This is irelevant anyway, I've been talking about the last 50 years not 200 years.

Hundreds of thousands of people if not millions (no one will ever know the true number) have died as a result of their independence, as soon as we left, law and order went out the window.