In what way? Using a harsh tone? That wouldn't work in the same way as the disks, they are not used to startle the dogs, they are used as sound (not a scary one) that signals non reward and therefore (like the opposite of a clicker) signals exactly which behaviour is not desired.

People say why use clickers because you can use your voice but clickers give more precise information just as training disks do.

Thanks Shona

I've heard your range of voices too - very effective, I particularly like your counting

I think the only time I could see the benefit of using something like disks is where you are working with an owner and dog where the dog had completely switched off from the owners voice...in that case, something to reinforce the meaning of the voice could be useful for a short time, but I would still not have thought it would be necessary on a permanent basis.

so how exactly does he use the disks?

eta: what method do you yourself use?

If there is a dog with an undesirable behaviour that is not going away despite best efforts he will tune the dogs to the disk and then the disks are chinked when the dogs is at the very start (e.g. first split second of showing the behaviour). The chink stops the dog in their tracks (there mind appears to go blank for a second) and a counter command is given imediately and then a big reward. They are only used if he is certain that the behaviour is not fueld by fear.

Along side the disks the owners must practice the counter command very regularly and eventually the counter command given before the unwanted behaviour is displayed is all that is needed to stop the unwanted behaviour from happening.

The disks and the positive training work together so that the disks do not need to be used for long periods and never need to be thrown at the dog.

Tonks knows "Off" (always said in a light tone, which means " move your nose away from that object". Apart from that i give counter commands and e.g. "sit" if she is thinking about jumping up.

I use ignoring, distraction, prediction and prevention.

can i ask what you mean by tuned into the disks.. how would this be done.. what sort of negitive association is used with the disk

So would the disks be used to sort out one behaviour only? with one counter command being given?
or are they more flexible than that?

sorry for so many questions,. but as i have never used disks... im quite intrested to find out

I'll post a link up. the negative association is that all the great treats on offer are scooped up the moment the disks are thrown down. the noise happens and the treats disapear. That sound = non reward.

They can be used for a number of behaviours as they signal non reward but shoudl be used only when all other reward based methods have been exhausted IMO.

Don't mind questions - it is very interesting to watch when they are being used correctly. John Fisher studied the methods used by people e.g. rattle cans, throwing keys at dogs and wanted to find out why it worked and find a method that worked that did not rely on repeatedly startling the dogs. A more positive method.

The dogs must be tuned to the disks away from the situation where the unwanted behaviour is displayed. The dog sits with owner and five or six times food rewards are dropped on the floor, once the dog is expecting the food reward one looks like it is about to be offered to the dog but insted the reward is whipped away and at that same instant the disks are throw on the the floor. The dog will seem confused and stop what they are doing and during this midly confused/frustrated state the owner (positively and kindly) asks the dog to do something e.g. sit, and they get a massive reward.

There is a good link explaining how they work.
http://www.napoleon.org.uk/training/nonreward.htm

Sorry no input on the disc's.

But back to the question asked....forget the dogs..Mic Martin could train me anyday

thanks for the link.. I will get round to looking at it tomorow as I say..its not a method I have used... but it could be intresting to know how they work

i dont mind him ,however if he started trying to put me down ,i have to say ,i would let him have it . but he dos get the job done .