the pictures are hardly impartial are they LMD....they are straight from your suppliers catalogue...pgs 2 3 24 45 for example so surely they are copyrighted to Herm Sprenger not to LMD Ltd.

They apply pressure on the tips of the prongs and rely on instinct not to purposly push into pressure (since the handler isn't pulling the collar dog would have to push into the prongs).

Pressure doesn't have to hurt, it's the sensation that acts as the deterent. You're applying pressure to the keys on your keyboard, is it hurting, even when you hit the edge instead of the flats?

Pushing hard into the prongs will cause discomfort, but give your dog (and it's instinct) some credit, it's not going to pull and pull and pull until it causes pain. Most common response I hear is "the dog stopped pulling instantly", because it felt the sensation and some instinct in it's muddled brain thought "that's a point of pressure....I'm not forcing my neck into that", even through the excitement of going for a walk. Dogs bite and chew on each other for fun and play, their canines are far sharper than a prong collar and capable of far more pressure, they don't end up bloodied and in tatters. Ever seen a gundog dive into brush to flush birds? They're getting poked and prodded all the way through by small points of pressure but they do it because it's fun, if it hurt you'd have a really hard time getting them to do it.

It's too easy to presume 'pain'. And selective pictures like the first ones posted don't help give a realistic representation.

The collar isn't designed to cause wounds. If it were the prongs would be sharpened to needle points. It's a rounded piece of wire, it's not like the end of a fork or like a skewer. Imagine the round end of a Bic pen, but half the size. Does that look capable of causing wounds?

The length of fur makes no difference, unless it's a really thick double coat the fur won't act as cushioning. The prongs don't dig in, they press against the neck under pressure and only touch lightly when there's no pressure. You don't drag, yank, pop the lead, just apply a little pressure.

People with show dogs tend to get it a lot faster than most because they know how to hold the dogs head up by applying pressure when they're in the ring, it's a very similar action with a prong collar.

BTW, a prong and pinch collar is exactly the same thing, the actual name is prong collar, pinch is a lazy and inaccurate term.

I cant agree with you - the original photo shows a short haired dog having been wounded by a product you promote. If as you say the dog stops "instant" it feels pressure the wounds would not have occurred.

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People with show dogs tend to get it a lot faster than most because they know how to hold the dogs head up by applying pressure when they're in the ring, it's a very similar action with a prong collar. - end quote

I showed dogs for years & i certainly never applied any such pressure as you imply. Im sure quite a few show pepple on here would take exception to that statement!

The pictures in the circles are copyright to LMD Ltd, we have permission from HS to use and modify the pictures. I have plenty more, the circle pictures are a nice set though and it helps identify them if anyone tries to lift them. If you believe what you read those pictures shouldn't be possible because as soon as the collar goes on the dog's in pain and stress and wouldn't pose unless under duress, and Sprenger haven't pumped the dogs full of valium and thorazine first.

The first pictures are hardly impartial, purposly posted to cause alarm and disgust. 'Folk Devils and Moral Panics', for anyone who gets the irony of it.

Would you like the explanation behind them sine no-one cared to add it at the the time?

you never set the collar high on the neck and held the lead up to keep form? Interesting.

That picture is of a rescue dog that was abandoned in the back yard and was tethered to a fixed point with a line and a prong collar. The collar was too small and as the dog grew the collar became even tighter until the skin started to grow over the prongs.

The fur had covered the collar too, so they had to cut the fur out of it first, then cut the collar out. Notice the head and body have long fur, but there's a short cut ring where they had to remove the fur just to get to the collar? It's an American photo, and the pet shop brands there tend to buy their collars off one of 2 Chinese manufacturers and simply rebrand them. I'm only presuming, but someone who has this kind of low regards for their dog is unlikely to have invested in any half decent equipment. The problem with the cheap collars is a chisel cut end which has sharp edges (the same way they make coat hangers...) so it's understandable how it would first rub the skin raw and then when there's a wound the skin would heal up and over the prong.

Fortunately the prong collar only touches along a series of points. If that dog were left tethered like that with a flat or chain collar it'd have been strangled instead.

I don't see what that has to do with prong collars as such, except to demonstrate why you don't leave a dog with a prong collar tethered to a fixed line or unattended.

That picture is purely about animal cruelty, to be rational the collar isn't the issue, it's the owners neglect of the dog that's the real cause here.

Now you see why I'm objecting to that picture? Would you like to review your judgement?

Nope - ours showed on a loose show lead. We dont believe a dog shows well strung up on a tight lead. I know Boxers that are shown present day wearing a flat collar & loose lead.

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Now you see why I'm objecting to that picture? Would you like to review your judgement? - end Quote

I stand corrected if this is the case i.e. Cruelty case

However i still dont support the use of Prong /Pinch collars.

PS ignore any asteriks - im using the iPhone & copy/pasting from a App like "Word" programe which doesnt seem to be entirely compatible with forums