indeed and agreed on both points. good post.

very true.

an interesting question is, what would be the order of worseness between e, prong, check/choke?

Around here (Ireland) it seems to be the norm that pinch collars are used by the majority at the schutzhund clubs. I do not know if this is the same in the UK.

They are very disliked by anybody that I know involved in agility or obedience and did not know that they would be allowed at any KC licenced events. I am sure they are not allowed at IKC events.

Probably depends on the dog and the handler but perhaps when you put it that way, for the dog, they are all as bad as one another?

Havent seen any on the Sch dogs here but thats not to say some people who do that with thier dogs wont use them. Mainly they realise the benefit of teh dog having play/rewards I think.

Working Trials, wouldnt have thought they would go down well.

I'd want to see what the handler is doing, first.

I use to use check/choke, and also half-check. It was what I was taught in the early 80's at dog classes then. State of the Art for the time.

The first dog training book i ever read in my life was John Holmes' "The Obedient Dog". Got it out of the library and trained my family's puppy that way. I just got a copy of it from Ebay to see what I thought. Yes it is a lot harsher than we are used to these days. Knowing more i doubt i would need to fall back on those methods.