Im "mainley" positive

I train (mainley) using O/C either with clicker or Clicker word, & lots of food.
I use in general food & repitition to teach & toys to motivate.

In general i like to set the dog up to succeed when training & not set up to fail so i can correct it.

However i Do like to use "no",
i DO like to use my lead, eg for teaching a sit stay.

I will use a aversion if a dog is in a bad habit of jumping up, having FIRST taught the desired behaviour, just to back proof it abit, unfortunatly alot of people Wont put the work in on this to do i with purely positive methods, timing cant really be taught.

I will use a aversion for puppy biting, having first taught "nice kisses" i will then either yelp or teach "no biting" thumb pushed back of pups mouth & held there (not comfy).

When using any aversion i will redirect & praise /mark the required behaviour atferwards, this i do find helpful.

In my training for OB comp, i do like abit of hands on, Pressure testing on contact points etc ,lead use etc. My lead use is fun for the dog,as encoragement, eg as a pup i will jingle the lead & praise/feed, so the tug jingle has nice associations etc.
I WILL use a lead/short line when proofing waits etc, so if the dog dosent wait i can correct it.

I think as a trainer i not really interested if im positive semi positive or not, as far as im concered i want to be FUN KIND FAIR CLEAR& EFFECTIVE.

I would say I am mainly positive.

I am not afraid of raising my voice or using a LEAVE command.

But I do teach dogs what it means - I have pet hates of people telling me they 'KNOW' the dog understands, but have yet to actually teach the dog what it means!

I used to be quite like Mish when I did obedience, although my trainer used to tell me off for using the lead - she used to reckon it was a really bad habit to get into.

Tassle was a different kettle off fish....nothing could be hands on with her - she just froze. It all had to be shaping and luring.

I very rarely use hands on with dogs now - and get puppies working off lead ASAP, mainly for teaching owners not to rely on the leads!

Sounds like a very bright dog who may have scented something really interesting.
I went on a tracking workshop and the guy said you have to learn (when tracking) to trust your dog and follow them, not impede them - and this was difficult because we are so used to leading them.

A couple people have said "I'm mainly positive but I do use the word no" or "but I do use a leave command."

Why are those not positive? I guess to me positive training mostly revolves around teaching and having fun, but sometimes you have to teach the dog they can't have everything they want. A leave command to me is not positive. It's a "protection" command (No Dahlia you CANNOT eat the chicken bone you just saw on the sidewalk). She gets rewarded for leaving something and continuing on (usually with praise and petting at this point unless I have food on me). I don't see that as not positive at all.

As for "no" Dahlia hears "nope!" when she wants to go a way I don't want to (I no longer even give her the chance to sit down!). She knows that she can't go where she wants to and follows me in the direction I want to go. She's rewarded (with lots of praise and petting) for coming the way I want to. Again, I'm not sure how that's not positive.

I always get the impression from a lot of people that "positive" to them means "permissive." But it doesn't. And most "positive" trainers use a combination of +R (positive reinforcement - adding something good when they do a behavior you want) and -P (negative punishment - taking away something they want when they do something wrong, like not giving a treat or removing attention if they're jumping on you or biting).

I've always seen the basic gist of positive training as one that doesn't use painful, coercive, forceful methods to train.

Maybe I'd do well with tracking! I'm quite used to and quite happy to let her lead me. She usually does on walks until the direction she wants to take is going to add a long distance to the walk and we need to head home, then I take over leading her (and usually just one turn back toward home and she'll start to make her way back without my having to tell her which way to go). I've always thought it might be fun to try tracking but no one offers it around here. Maybe someday!

Thanks guys. Im a little short on time so I will just cover what I can

For the jumping on and back off again - thats not positive training that dosent work - thats the trainer not understanding it
You get what you reward so a smart dog will realise it is being rewarded for jumpin off the sofa - where we think we are teaching off and stay off
the easy way around this is to be more rewarding when the dog is on the floor. Lure off the sofa, reward for getting off, then reward several times for being off the sofa, and then at ramdom times reward for being where you want them to be
all too often we ignore a dog when he is doing what we want and only pay attention when they are 'bad'

I agree I dont think 'leave it' is a punishment - if taught using positive methods. I was working on Mia 'leave it' last night for the first time in ages. Seeing the treat she had to leave her tail was wagging like crazy as she happily ignored the tasty sausage waving right under her nose

MF, I guess if you are just using the lead to prevent the dog breaking stay then its not all that big a deal, although I dunno why you need it? I always think the 'stay' exercise is the easiest in the world for the dog 'I just get to lie here and treats keep on comming at me - wow - I love this'

no not at all i use it to reinforce what "Stay" means. Teach the sit stay that way (i ALWAYS teach a solid sit stay before the down -for obvious reasons!)
i use it as a resistance as i move away, gently put a pressure on the lead towards me so the dog automatically pulls back & down into its bum-then i can praise & return to reward.
(mainley use it for sit stay) that way the dog trys harder & its clear what im praising for , ie its bum staying on the floor.

Also to reinforce the attention on me, so if the dog starts to galk around i can reinforce , despite the distance to watch me.
I want to be doing minium talking whilst im "away" from the dog, so this way i can be away but still in control.

I need a stay with no moving, no sniffing, no change position, in sight & out of sight.

Works for me

IME if you teach a solid release cue there is no need to use "lead resistance" to proof the exercise .. heavy reinforcement of position initially, coupled with a well understood proofed Release makes Stay/ Wait whatever you call it a straightforward exercise .. don't see point of the lead but we all have our chosen techniques ... there sure ain't only one way to teach a dog!

Idagree with you thats theres more than one way to teach a dog to do a stay, but PLEASE respect methods other people use, obviously i like to use it because it works well for me

Do you compete?


I know one lady whose say command & last command is "time" so each time "time" is called throught the stay, her dog is reinforced. Clever /cheating i cant decide! tis clever though

I changed to your method Mish and found it suited my dog very well.

As for the "time" thing we could all do it so not cheating IMO just blooming clever

I'm lucky to have a friend who I train with from time to time who is very motivating and positive both with dogs and handlers, just wish she didn't live at other side of the country so I could train with her more often.