We were always fans of Haltis, having literally got our first one the year they came out - it turned walking our first staffie from a nightmare into a pleasure!

With my last puller, I got a Gentle Leader (not sure who but someone recommended them) and liked that even more.

My present dog has an eye problem so can't have any pressure on or face or neck so she has to have a harness. Luckily she doesn't pull and walks to heel anyway as she was a show dog before I got her.

Hello TabithaJ,

So, you've found a collar that works for you under professional guidance, would you say it's a solution that could equally be applied for all dogs? This is where some of the main problems lie with making recommendations based solely on a current situation. You seem very enthusiastic about the head collar, but there are also inaccuracies that obviously go past your own experience that other owners are suffering with. For example:

1) Dogs can lunge at any time wearing any type of collar, even an agitation collar with a handle on it. The only real difference is the amount of acceleration and force they can generate. A dog on a 6 foot lead can get a good run up and put some incredible force behind a lunge, where a short lead restricts the run up. Both scenarios can cause injury, one more likely than the other though.

2) No, no it doesn't. When a dog is on its hind legs with its neck twisted sideways, do you think it's paying attention to any commands? When a dog has its head pulled into its chest and is looking at the floor, you think it's paying attention to any commands? When a dog is uncomfortable with the equipment and is shaking its head to try and remove the discomfort, you think it's paying attention to any commands?

3) Is that just your dog, or all dogs using a headcollar?

4) A personal issue of mine, does a person who comes out of a pet shop with a £6.99 Ancol headcollar and a promise of easy walks genuinely invest in their equipment or understand the benefits? And if there are no immediate results will they necessarily keep trying, or put it in a drawer with other equipment they've speculatively tried and buy some other cheap miracle cure? In the meantime how much harm could come to the dog? Perhaps a well made, well designed, well engineered headcollar was the solution all along, but unfortunately the majority will pick the cheap option first every time.

5) Ah, a professional recommendation, fitting and training sessions. Well, there's the really big difference and suprisingly it puts you in a minority. Even though in a follow up post you confess never to use the headcollar during training.....the same head collar I'm assuming that 'enables' training? Obviously I'm a little curious why the trainer doesn't recommend using the headcollar during sessions, perhaps there's a reason?


Different collars of all descriptions enable owners to walk their dogs safely and calmly, from a piece of rope to the most complex harness/truss system you've ever seen. Finding the correct and most suitable one depends on both the dog and the handler. You've found the one working for you, great, but considering the known issues and dangers of these collars it's not automatically a solution for everyone. My issue is safe, workable alternatives where handlers don't have the same success as you are frowned on and owners who use them come under abuse, usually through lack of understanding.

regards,

Austin

Hi Austin, that is frequently suggested here and for most people a responsible trainer is one who belongs to the APDT and signs up to their code of practice;
see below ..

''The training methods employed and advised by members shall be consistent with the principles of kindness and fairness to both clients and dogs. For this reason, the use of coercive or punitive techniques and equipment should not be used. ''
http://www.apdt.co.uk/about_APDT.asp

Please note this post , if you wish to discuss prong collars you are at liberty to start your own thead ..
Also please note this Announcement by Admin.
Thank you.
http://www.dogsey.com/showthread.php?t=139606


ETA Off topic posts will be deleted..

Hello Krylr,

Lets consider the cons of the average flat buckle collar, I'll get us started and you expand the list if you can.

Too big
Too small
Dog pulls and chokes
Inferior materials
Hair loss
Injury through misuse.

Now, expand that list as long as you want and I'll still be able to include all the above and even add several cons specific to headcollars just as if not more dangerous. In reallity though it somes down to just two main cons which flaw the collars:

Design
Application

Just on this message board alone, with only a short time sifting through comments and user experience that there are actual examples of actual handlers with actual dogs stating headcollars have quite severe issues. In contrast, there are many many other posts stating how terrible prong collars are, but no actual owners with actual proof of trauma and injury. I have no need to "sell" you or anyone here prong collars, just a need to understand why they're viewed so negatively by people with no experience of them who will gladly recommend a known and unsafe alternative gladly and with great vigor.

regards,

Austin

not necesarrily.

you dont need to belong to APDT to believe in all that.

Hello Minihaha,

I'm happy to discuss only headcollars in this thread and ignore prong collars, however earlier in the posts they were quite rapidly dismissed (I'm slowly begining to see it was aimed more at a particular poster than anything) as an alternative, and no-one's yet to suggest the original poster may want to review their overall choice of collar.

I'm also a little confused to the e-collar link, that's a different issue entirely. Surely?

regards,

Austin

I agree KW my suggestion does not preclude other trainers who adhere to the same code of practise as the APDT , however when telephoning a trainer it can be helpful to have a point of reference and a recognised body to whom one can complain if there is a problem .

Now can we please get back to the topic in question,
'headcollars'.

hello tabitha

with my guided walking technique i can do all that with the head collar, which takes it beyond management, as it taps into the dogs emotions.

i dont think you can actually say its impossible for a dog to lunge on a head collar though.
you say yourself its the tightening of the lead, not the head collar, that prevents your dog lunging.

Austin, the Original Poster has made her wishes know here..

''Thanks for the suggestions regarding alteratives, but I'm specifically interested in headcollars and their various designs. There are lots of threads on loose lead walking/harnesses etc so I started this one particularly to discuss the styles and fit of headcollars, rather than whether or not to use them.
............... Its just interesting to look at all the different styles. There are more variations than I first thought! ''


''Please start a new thread to discuss prong collars. You are welcome to post a link to it, then anyone who would like to continue the discussion can do so there.

You mentioned them in post 53 after the Announcement in the link was made , I was advising you not to do so again.

Any further off topic posts will be deleted..

Ah, gotcha....