I thought that might be the case Thought it was worth a mention though. Haven't ever had a large breed so what works for mine, probably won't work for a large breed. I suppose toy dogs are easier to leave when you go out

With regard to the off-lead runs that some have suggested, I think that Woody has an issue with the development of his legs, so too much off-lead might not be advisable. I'm not sure though, perhaps I'm getting him mixed up with another dog on here I didn't suggest too much exercise for Woody because of this but obviously, if his legs are okay now, then the more exercise he gets the more he'll sleep when Pidge is at work

20 minutes off lead at his own pace on soft ground would be better for him than 20 minutes of pounding the pavements. IMO.

[QUOTE=labradork;1609346]The degree I am studying is based heavily on behavioural neuroscience, so I am quite aware of current research in this field. If you can point me towards a credible source that says that leaving an otherwise well exercised/stimulated dog, alone for two four hour periods (with break in between and company at all other times), is highly detrimental to it's welfare, I would be very happy to read it.

Don't mistake owners who leave their dogs responsibly with ones that don't. [QUOTE=labradork;1609346]

Once again you are jumping to your own defence it seems, i did not say that people who leave their dogs are irresponsible owners....but yes i do think crating a young dog for two periods of fours hours a day, without company is irresponsible.

If you are well read in dog behaviour i am sure that you know that you can very easily find research explaining the detrement of leaving dogs for long periods unstimulated. YOu say that it is not detrimental if the dog has been stimulated sufficiently etc...once again i say that an hours walk inbetween periods of four hours in a crate, with no company is not adequate!!

If you are so well read then you will know, and could even guess what detrimental effect this may well have on a young active dog.

8 - 12 am in a crate, then out for an hours walk, then 1 - 5pm back in crate.

Pidge has already said that Woody is bitey and very very lively when she gets home, and has also been distructive. These are very clear signs from the dog that he is not satisfied with the amount of stimulation, exercise, company etc that he is getting on the days he is being left for these times. How clearer can he make it?! Putting him in a crate for longer is more likely to lead to more behavioural issues when he is out of the crate, even more excess energy etc etc.

Putting him in a crate will stop him damaging the house but it will not give him any more stimulation, company or exercise, it will give him less........he won't be able to move around so much, throw toys around as much etc etc. How on earth is that fair or making things any better for him?!

If you really are that well read surely you can see that. Putting him in a crate is mearly dealing with the symptoms and not the cause of the problem and if you really feel this is truly fair to the dog and good for his welfare than there is nothing more to be said really.......especially when there are other options such as a dog walker to be looked into......but hay, whatever, lets go for the easy option and stick him in a crate again......after all, lots of dogs get used to it and deal with it.

You said originally:
Which to me suggests you think a young active dog will be sleeping all the time? I can't agree, I am afraid. And I've had very active dogs in my time who have chewed etc .

Not sure where you're going with this? I replied in context to Pidge's comment.

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That would be a brill option!

Would another be setting aside a room for Woody be possible? when I had my dogs and worked I used to make my bedroom theirs and I dog proofed it pretty much. I did have to totally change my life job wise after a year as my dogs needed more of me, but it certainly helped.

Just wanted to add as well - if Woody is left on 3 days but has company the rest of the time, he will possibly be more anxious when left on those 3 days because the rest of the time he's with Pidge and her family.

So, on the days he is with you Pidge, he will need to sometimes be helped to enjoy time on his own, ie perhaps put behind a child gate where he can still see you but with a yummy chewy stuffed kong or bone so he starts to enjoy being on his own. When young a dog needs to realise that being "alone" is actually sometimes a pleasant thing. You may have to do it quite slowly at first though ie a few seconds at a time and build it up....does that make any sense?



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Actually, I can't because as far as I am aware, it doesn't exist. And yes, I just spent time crawling the scientific journals I subscribe to online. Certainly, there was nothing about the effects of leaving an otherwise well exercised/stimulated and cared for dog alone for fours hours, then an hour break, then another four hours. To be honest, I can't imagine that would make for a particularly interesting piece of research

You are mistaking very normal puppy behaviour for boredom. Have you ever owned a gundog breed? gundog breeds are naturally very mouthy and in-your-face. I nicknamed my Lab, and my old Cocker incidentally, as little 'land sharks'. They love to get their teeth on anything.

Also, what dog ISN'T lively when their owner gets in from work, or being gone for a few hours?

Again, I think you are blowing this whole thing out of proportion. The OP isn't crating the dog for 9 hours straight without a break and no or limited exercise/stimulation/company at other times. Sadly that IS reality for many dogs, and I don't agree with that at all as much as the next person. But that ISN'T the case here and quite frankly you are making a mountain out of a molehill.

Is there any information regarding dogs being left alone in any of the journals? I also subscribe to online journals, as I am also doing a degree (applied animal behaviour) but haven't studied or looked for anything which supports your earlier suggestions re. it's Ok to leave dogs (sorry can't quite remember what you said but it was in an earlier post and you mentioned your learning about neuroscience to back your stance).

I would be interested to read what is out there ...

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Labradork said:

Forget hours, I only have to pop outside to the garage and when I come in the house, you'd think I'd been out for hours. I have eight of them jumping around like "hey Mum, where you been" and they are not even pups (some of them)

I can see both points of view. Ideally you would not want to crate such a young dog for 8 hours a day. A lot depends on the dog and Woody seemed to be happy being left before.

Could you compromise and crate him two days a week and arrange doggy daycare for the other day, preferably the day in the middle.